question for JDemaris

Hello I have got my dozer inside and the injection pump removed.
It is a CBC 431. 3dg. Attached is a pic of the shaft that sticks out from the timing gear area.
Is the conversion pump supposed to fit to this ? Or is this shaft to be removed? Does this look normal?
The conversion pump I saw at the dealer won't connect to this .
Also the 2 blolts that hold this pump on are much farther apart than the new pump, I know there is a couple clamps in the conversion kit, is what they are for?
J D says the instruction sheet for the adapter kit is no longer available! What's the chance you would have such a document?
Any help would be appreciated
Thank you

mc

No the conversion shaft has nothing to do with
the shaft in your photo. The shaft in your
photo has to be removed from where it attaches
to the timing gear in front of the engine. The
new "conversion" shaft would then attach
directly to the timing gear. If you cannot
find a "conversion" shaft - then you need the
correct shaft for DB and JDB pumps and a newer
style timing gear to match. The shaft shown in
your photo has 3-4 bolts holding it to the
timing gear. The standard DB or JDB shaft
attaches with NO bolts. It is tapered on the
end with a keyway and held on by one big nut.

As far as external mounting goes. Yes the
distance between those two 3/8" studs is
different for a CBC/CDC as for a DB/JDB. Deere
sells a special U-shaped bracket to mount a DB
or JDB on a setup like your's.

Thank you John
ok i have the right shaft for the conversion as it fits the new pump and has 3 bolt holes indexed same as the shaft in the pic. When i sent the c pump to get rebuilt the guy didnt remove his bench test shaft so I have an extra one , thats how i know what the end of my existing shaft looks like.
How difficult is it to remove the shaft and install the new one? what do i need to remove up front? I do have the service manual and i am reading it.
How difficult is it to set the timing after i install new pump and shaft? Do I need any special tool? The dozer is in a remote location with little or no servise close by so i have to make sure i have all the right tools/parts before I go as it is a 2 hr drive from here.
I now have the complete pump, shaft and conversion kit minus the detailed instruction sheet.
I think i am going to tackle the job this coming weekend.
Thank You so much for all your help

MC

The shaft is attached to the timing gear with three small bolts. Deere part # T26497. 5/16" bolts as I recall and take a 1/2" socket. They are special "shear" bolts and made to break if something goes wrong with the original CDC or CBC pump. It is remotely possible they are Allen-head bolts but I don't think so. Probably just hex-head bolts. You get to them though a small "trap door" on the front timing cover. I've done many out in the field or woods so it's not that hard.
Timing is best done like this although it's not always so easy.
Rotate engine until #1 cylinder is at top-dead-center of the compression stroke. Not easy to do with a diesel. Also not easy to tell when you are ON that compression stroke. One way to tell is pull the valve-cover off and watch the rocker-arms. Engine has four-strokes per cycle and two-strokes for every full turn of the crankshaft. So there are two "top dead centers" when #1 piston is on top. Identify the two rocker arms over #1 cylinder. One will be lined up with an exhaust port to that will be the exhaust rocker. Watch what they do as you turn the engine over. When you see the intake rocker go down – that means the engine has the piston going down on the “intake” stroke. Keep turning until the next TDC comes (piston on top) and that will be where you want to be . To verify you are exactly at TDC – there is timing hole in the flywheel that lines up with a hole in the bell-housing. In fact there ought to be a timing-pin there for you to use by the timing window. It has a ¾” hex on it with a 5/16” or 3/8” round stub sticking out. That is the timing pin. You take it out, turn it around and push into the flywheel gently as you rotate the engine. Hopefully you rotate by hand. If you use the starter and engage that pin too quickly – the starter can shear it right off !.

If you get to this point with the engine at TDC of compression stroke for # 1 cylinder, you are all set to install the pump.

At this point I have no idea if your new pump already has the shaft in it – or it’s not installed in the pump.

Normal DB or JDB setups allow removing the pump and leaving the shaft attached to the engine. In that case – the shaft has two flats and a dimple mark. Inside of the pump had a slot and dimple mark that corresponds. So all you do is line up dimple marks.

If your pump already has the shaft installed – just take off the little rectangular timing window on the pump and rotate the shaft until you see two timing lines get lined-up. Then the pump is set to inject at TDC for #1 cylinder. Now you just bolt it on.

Now – if it’s too cold and too difficult to get the engine at TDC compression-stroke for #1 cylinder – you can cheat and just do this.

In the shaft is already in the pump – you can’t go wrong. The three bolt holes in the end of the pump drive-shaft are NOT symmetrical. So you cannot get them on wrong,
If the bolts screw in and you are able to attach it – it will be in time enough to get started and you can fine tune later.

Wow u r amazing! The shaft is not installed in the pump. There is key way sort of slot where the shaft goes into the pump. There is only 2 positions the shaft can seat in the pump from what I can see.180 deg from each. I didn't notice any markers on the shaft.I did not study it that close.
It will be warm where I am working plus I can boost engine temp with a LPG salamander.
Can I not install the shaft on the pump first and then rotate the pump to line up the 3 bolts?
That method sound easier! LoL
I would like to use that method as a fall back if I can but will try the tdc first.
Since I am changing all the injector lines is it difficult!t to pull the injectors and let comp off.
It would give me a reason to buy a comp guage!
Is there anything I can do to the injectors to clean them etc?

Thanks again.
Mc
Do you know how buetifull Ontario is this time of year your$ is worth 1.20 here and we are not getting any snow! LoL

I'm not allowed in Ontario anymore. That being said, last time I WAS there, I had a truck problem in London (Ontario). Parts for my truck cost a heck of a lot more there then in the US. So at least then, my US $1 certainly wasn't getting me $1.20 worth of stuff.

I would not touch the injectors. Either replace them, or leave them alone. They are non-rebuildable in my experience (although Lavoy at JD Crawlers will tell you different). You can get brand new ones for $30 each.

Yes, you can put the shaft in first. In fact, it should be much easier that way. Just note that you have to be VERY careful. The shaft has two umbrella-shaped seals and the one facing in will want to flip over when installing. Put some oil on them and use something to compress them when installing. The end of the shaft that goes into the pump has a dimple mark. So does the inside of the pump where it goes in. Just match dimple to dimple and you know you're not 180 degrees off.

Thanks John. My biggest problem i think is knowing what parts go where. The conversion parts are no longer available as a kit and all had to be ordered individually. The only part not available any longer is the instruction sheet and JD cant get me one.My sevice manual makes ref to 2 seals and shows a special tool, just looks like a pc of pipe over the shaft to depress the seal. You say one faces each way?
I am going to pick up all the parts on wed or thurs and go through them. I may have some more questions for you then if you dont mind.

Thanks Again
MC

The tool for installing the seals on the shaft is NOT needed and is a waste of time and money.

The tool for compressing the seals is necessary IF trying to install that pump over the shaft when that shaft is attached to the engine.

Putting the shaft (with the seals on it) into the pump, while it's off the tractor is fairly easy to do with NO special tools.

Thanks john. I am going to figure it out!

Mc

These show things a little clearer then words.

that is great ! it looks like there is another seal/ring farther along the shaft towards pump end? Or is it just the pic?
You dont have a complete set of the instructions do you? I could give you my email address to send them to
[email protected]

thanks

MC

For your pump, the shaft gets just two umbrella seals. They come in the complete seal kit that costs around $15. One seal faces the engine and keeps engine oil from getting into the pump. The other faces the pump and keeps diesel fuel from getting into the engine.

The extra "seal" you are seeing is just an o-ring. It is ONLY used on pumps that attach vertically - like on a 1010, 2010, 3020, 4020, etc. Not used on a 350. That extra-ring is to keep the shaft from falling out.

Some more info.