Re: JD350 slight miss and now mouse turds in the IP

YUP, flex ring is broken..
Do your self a BIG FAVOR and get a solid weight retainer installed from your rebuilder.. P# 29111
and you'll never have this problem again.
Most rebuilders wont even tell you about this option, on account they want to see you back in a few years..
Deiseltech or myself can help you out.
 
It's from the pellathane governor vibration-damper. When it falls apart, it basically lets the pump get too much internal fuel pressure that shuts it off. That because the housing-pressure-regulator in your return-line circuit gets plugged.

Pumps on highway equipment automatically get updated and that ring eliminated. Not on off-road equipment unless you ask for it. It's an extra $50 for the part.

$50 in parts to fix back to original, or $100 in parts with the updrade. Labor is zero if you do yourself. Could be as high as $500 for just the labor if you send to a shop.

You'll likely find that if you take out the return line fitting from the pump cover (housing pressure regulator) and then run it - it won't quite anymore. Not a good way to run it for very long though.
 
Okay guys, thanks for jumping in here and letting me know what my problem is, super, thank you.

Now several questions...
1. Can I keep running it as is without fear of damaging anything? It's winter and I don't want the machine down for long.
2. Is this what is causing the skipping/popping, or has the crap made it to the injectors and they are plugged/plugging?
3. Being very mechanical, is this something I can repair/replace? I have the SM2045 service manual but haven't read it all yet. I have a very clean place to work on it once out.

Thanks again all! :D

Paul
 
Is this the part you are referring to? The retainer in the centrifugal governor?


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And which figure # here are we talking about? Thanks guys!


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I know of people that reamed out the fuel-exit fitting (regulator), and then ran their machine for over a year without issues. It's a crap-shoot. With that pellathane-ring broken, you've got metal hammering against metal in the governor cage. I know it sends small particles of metal debris around since the metal "dust" often gets stuck to the electromagnet (if the pump has an electric shut-off).

The pump is no more complicated then some automotive carbs (ever had a Quadrajet apart?).

For a pump off a Deere, there is one special tool needed that ought to cost you around $10. A 6-tooth Bristol wrench.
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Thanks John. Yes had many, many Q-Jets apart over the years, manual trannies, auto trannies even, reprogramming shift points and adjusting pressures etc.

So I have read thru the entire disassembly instructions on the JDB pump and I have a question...do I need to dismantle the whole pump to get at the retainer or can I just take off the pump end? It looks like maybe everything under the return line cover might have to come out first,as there is an arm that goes down into the governor area. Also, which exact part are we taking about that has failed? Is it the small ring that is shown being removed with snap ring pliers on the top right of the page?

Thanks again,
Paul
 
Has to come almost entirely apart. Only thing you do not have to take apart is the rotor from the head. The part that falls apart is the pellathane/plastic ring. But once it runs for awhile like that - the steel rivets that hold it on get hammered and ruined. So all depends how long it has run with that broken ring.

Basically, you remove the throttle-shaft and metering valve. then remove the three bolts holding the aluminum housing to the center-section (head&rotor assembly). Take out the two big advance-piston plugs if you have them. Remove the odd-ball head-pivot-screw that has that odd-ball 6 tooth drive. Then twist the housing loose from the center-section and you can change the parts. Comes apart hard if the old o-ring is hard and stuck.
 
(quoted from post at 09:25:22 01/24/15) This thread was split up so here is the first part of the thread for people looking at it in the future.

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1116451

For the compete story and symptoms read the above post first...

So yet [i:b2664082e1]another[/i:b2664082e1] year has passed, dozer sat in the yard all alone for the whole year and the bag of Spaco parts on the coffee table, but this week I finally got around to rebuilding the IP and I wanted to complete this story.

Once I got the pump apart I could indeed confirm that the governor retainer ring was completely gone, and that the steel ring had worn through one rivet completely and was working on the other 2. I left the head intact as the machine, other than the miss and pops, ran very well and I didn't want to get into the little bits of the pump end. The pump was extremely clean with no signs of any particles or "stuff" remaining. I didn't have the Bristol splined wrench but had a torx 45, and with some careful application of foil around the end to make it a tight fit, managed to get the cam screw out without breaking it. Impact wrench on lowest setting and she popped right out. Lucky :lol: I pressed out the old pilot tube as it had some decent grooves worn into it from the umbrella seals, cleaned the bore and mixed up some JB weld and pressed in the new one. Found out it should be flush on the inside surface of the pump body, which leaves about 1/8" sticking out the front of the mounting flange. I went to the local Diesel shop and they had a drawer full of Roosa Master parts, and the fellow gave me a good used governor weight retainer and check ball fitting for the return line, as someone had drilled mine out at one point. Then carefully put on the new damper ring, reassembled the rest of the pump, making sure to get all the registration marks correct, reconnected the governor and all the springs and such (make sure you get the shut off cam mounted correctly :roll: ) and waited for the rain to stop and installed it in the machine. Make sure to have the engine at TDC with the pin inserted into the flywheel, and the timing mark showing in the timing window on the pump before you remove the pump, and don't touch the engine until it's time to go back together. Look at the end of the shaft and notice the punch mark, ensure it matches the punch mark on the slot inside the pump, where the shaft seats.

Took about a half hour and was ready to fire up...with my trusty tennis ball emergency shut off device in hand and with the pump all bled, I turned it over and after about 10 seconds of cranking she fired up, sputtered and popped until all the air came out of the lines, and roared to life! Ya baby! What a difference. Runs smooth and sounds so much better. Jumped on the machine and took it for a little run around the yard...and in the process dumped the top tray of my tool box off the far track and drove over it (don't tell me you have never done THAT :oops: ) Doooh! Got it back to the work area and found I couldn't shut it off, got down to a trickle of an idle but wouldn't shut down. I had to dump the clutch in 3rd gear as my tennis ball wouldn't kill the engine. Apparently I have an air leak somewhere between the air intake pipe and the manifold.

Posted here for some help, and thought about it for a while, and Dieseltech mentioned the shut off cam...shut off cam you say? what's that? Well I found out it is the little clip, with one longer arm on it, that secures the throttle shaft halves, and pulls the metering rod completely closed when you close the throttle, I had it on backwards, and it was doing nothing. Easy 5 minute fix right on the machine as it is just under the governor spring cover with only 3 screws and no need to remove the pump. Tried it again and it works 100%. Thanks Dieseltech!

Thanks all for the help...it took me 2 years but it's running perfectly. Not completely sure what fixed it, whether it's having the weight retainer back in or having the check ball back on it so that correct pressure is obtained inside the pump, but I am happy.

Here are a few pictures and a sound clip of it running....compare it to the sound clip at the beginning of the thread in part 1....amazing difference.

Cheers

JD350 running again sound clip
[u:b2664082e1][color=blue:b2664082e1]JD350 fixed[/color:b2664082e1][/u:b2664082e1]

All apart ready for reassembly
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Torx 45 disguised as Bristol wrench (it was Halloween)
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