Advice/suggestions on cold starts

Case450

Member
I have an old MF 470 wheel loader and a case 450C crawler loader that I like to fire up once in a while in the wintertime to push back snowbanks or bring into the shop to tinker on ever now and again.

I seem to fight with these things when it comes time to start them. The battery also goes flat turning them over and boosting it and so on. On the loader I had a block heater on the loader installed which seems to be plumbed into the coolant line. I usually plug that in and than plug in a magnetic heater thing that I stick to the oil pan.

Am I better off waiting for a mild day to play or should I invest in some monster batteries for these PIA machines? lol Maybe someone else on here has some tips or suggestions that can make this a bit less of an ordeal? (I can't always store them in my heated shop)
 
Out of all the different equipment I have worked on over the years, the biggest causes of hard starting when cold are related more to the electrical/starting system than to the wear on the engine.

That said, the first thing is to get the largest group size battery/batteries that will fit in the battery box. There is a reason that they make the boxes that size.

Next, whatever battery size you need, get the battery with the highest CCA available. I often see small car sized batteries being used in equipment and the customer wonders why they are having problems.

Third make sure that the ends of the battery cables are tight, and in good condition. In other words crimped on ends are the only real way to go. You wouldn't believe the number of calls I get for not starting, or hard starting, that winds up being the owner used a set of the 'emergency' type ends and the wire is corroded, the bolts are loose because they have been over tightened and pulled the nut into the lead of the end, or whatever. In all cases a properly crimped on end had solved the problem.

Once you get the electrical side of things right, that is half the solution. From there, the block heater is one of the best things you can use to warm the engine. With a properly sized heater, and with it working properly, the engine should start with absolutely no problems. I say no problems, providing it's not below zero with a wind chill even colder. The main thing is don't expect to plug it in and start it two hours later. The best thing you can do is to leave it plugged in overnight.

Beyond that, regardless of what many naysayers will tell you, ether is a cold engines friend...WHEN USED CORRECTLY. Basically it helps the engine start faster, which is good. Not only does it take a strain off of the starter, it also limits the time the engine is turning over with little, to no, oil pressure before actually starting. The main thing with the ether is NEVER use it with an engine that has any type of intake heater, or glow plugs, as doing so can, an usually will, result in an explosive condition that can damage the intake manifold or internals in the way of bent rods, damaged pistons, etc, etc. The best thing is to get a system designed, and sized for your engine, and use it when everything else is not enough.

If you take care of those things, I think your starting problems will go away.
 
I haven't noticed them lately, but years ago there were heating pads that went under the batteries that would warm the batteries when they were plugged in. Maybe they don't sell those anymore because of global warming???
 
I wish I could do something about the "below zero" part but living in Canada that's about half the time up here! haha

The reason for the post overall was seeing some of the newer machines starting when it's cold or in a blizzard to move snow and takes me half a day to get mine going! lol Albeit my machines are very old but at some point they were new and ran and started like new. No reason why it can't run like that again in my mind!

I do use either as my old machines have no plugs or intake heaters, none of that stuff so I use ether. Small shot of ether while it's turning over good and 9 times out of 10 that little boost to the starting is usually enough to get her to fire.

I think I will install, well, the biggest battery that will fit in my tray's because I am guilty of having a smaller battery in both of my rigs. I completely rewired both machines and I paid extra attention to all connections. That battery warmer is something I will keep an eye out for.

Thank yall for all your advice and if you have any more, don't be shy! Again, thanks guy!
 
(quoted from post at 09:54:42 12/03/14) propane torch in the intake does good.

Better than a propane torch is a hot air heat gun, a paint stripper gun you may know it as. The fan or intake suction tends to put the propane torch out, but the hot air gun will keep pumping hot air till the tractor gets going on it's own. Even a $13.00 Harbor Freight job will work fine. A $40.00 Porter Cable works even better. Use it to warm the intake and air cleaner and then stick it right in the intake pipe if you can. Some tractors have a plug on the intake itself you can remove and put it in there. Works lots better than ether IME and no fears with it.

http://www.portercable.com/Products/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=24265
 
If they start well in warm weather, they will start well in cold weather if you install a good tank heater properly (and plug it in an hour or so before starting).
 
In a nutshell do what I used to do way back change over to 24V starting,leave the 12V starter on, change the alternator to 24V,you can change the bulbs or connect the lights to one battery depending on what you have on each machine,then when you look at the key it will go,when the starter burns out in 10 years time you can replace it with a 24V one,people say the 12V lasts for ages as it has so much less to do.
AJ
 
what i do is keep a battery maintainer on in the winter, face all my machines to the south in a sunny spot, tarp them over, and use a torpedo heater to heat them up n real cold days
 
You are doing something wrong or missing something. I have three Case diesels like your's. A 580CK with a 207D, a 350 with a 188D and a 310 with a 188D. I can start any of them just fine at 0 degrees F when I plug in the block tank-heater for an hour or so. And I've done it with just one battery, not two.
 
My Case Skidsteer 1845 has the same engine as your Case 450. I use a Group 31 battery and if I forget to plug it in a little starting fluid. Started it down to 10 degrees(Never needed it if colder). I would load test your battery. Then really look at the connections. No go take the starter off and check. Those Delco Remy starters are fairly easy to rebuild.
 
After seeing this post I have spent the last few days trying the different options,the 450 is in the woods so the plug into the mains is not an option and I have been using a generator instead and that can also be a pain to start once it goes below zero,even when it does start it takes ages to warm the tractor and I still end up using ether and jumper cables,seeing Aj's post about 24V I thought I would try it.I disconnected the alternator and put in another battery in series making 24 volts,hit the start,it fired up straight away no ether,no block heater and no waiting,I am now going to convert it over to 24V proper,it was taking me at least an hour every day for the generator block heater, with the 24 volt it is instance start and that is equivalent to a day a week gain to me.
P
 
Hey . . whatever works. What you did is no
different then what happens when we convert a 6
volt tractor to 12 volts and leave the old 6 volt
starter as-is. Fact remains that the original
starter in the Case diesel ought to be suffcient
unless there's a problem somewhere.

Just curious - what your voltage AT the starter
with the 12 volt batteries? Needs to be 9 1/2
volts or higher to start well when cold.
 
Update after a week,started every day on the 24 volt without any starting aid,have not converted the alternator yet so just use the 24 for to start and then go back to 12v parallel to keep the batteries charged,pm to Aj and he replied telling me how to keep the 12v for the cab accessories if I change to 24,but this is working so well I may not bother changing the charging at this time.
P
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top