931B steering what next?

I posted an update in the previous thread but I think it got missed. It appears that the steering clutches aren't releasing. Going up a hill with both pedals pushed it keeps on climbing. The right side will do a brake turn fairly easy but not a gradual turn. Left side does nothing. I was trying to take the left brake band support bolt out to see if there was water and/or oil in the case but it got real hard to turn and I don't want to break it. The threads look clean coming out and I think it's almost near the end. Would rust cause this and would heating it be a good idea? What is the next step? I think I have a big job taking everything apart to get into the cases. I took the backhoe off so at least it's out of the way. Does the ROPS have to come off too?

Does your machine have two or three pedals?
If you can steer one way that clutch is working.
If you drive up hill and have both outer pedals down(3 pedal machine)and it keeps driving straight it must be loosing clutch release oil.
If it's loosing clutch release oil the trans oil must be going down. Is this happening?
You can leave the rops on.
Later Bob

Yes, it's 3 pedals(1986). I did notice the right steering valve leaked a little bit because the top bolt was loose. They put another bolt and some washers in the bottom hole when it was rebuilt. I took that bolt out because it's a mounting hole for the valve. I never thought the top bolt wouldn't have been tightened. I don't think the trans. has been losing any oil from elsewhere though. It made a clunk one time turning but seems to turn good right stopping the track. It doesn't do a gradual turns though. I can hear and feel oil going through the lines to the steering valves. I remember the shop said my trans. screen being clean is a good sign. I think you might have said that black flakes in the trans. screen would be from the clutch disc? There was couple tiny black spots but the screen looked really clean. Do you think it's a good idea to get the brake band support bolts out to see if any liquid is in there? I have the left one almost out but it's real hard to turn. Was going to heat it up so I don't break it off. That wouldn't be good. I read on another forum it's about 40 hours to take everything apart. Does that sound right? I'm trying to figure just how big and how hard of a job it is to get the clutches and brakes out in the field. I kind of doubt mineral spirits or anything else will fix the problem.

Looks like Bob has been able to get involved, and I know he knows more about your machine than I do, which is good. On my end, I"ve been busy as heck the past week or so and wasn"t able to keep up with the problem and your progress.

That said, 40 hours seems reasonable to pull both steering clutches and brakes. The last one I did was on a D9G and it took me about 3 long days total to pull everything, install new brakes, and put it all back together.

Given that I have a crane, air compressor/impacts, and special tools like steering clutch wrenches, on my service truck, not to mention that I have had a few steering clutches out over the years, it makes things a bit easier for me. That said, it"s not that hard of a job to do, and really looks more intimidating than it really is. The main thing is if you have something there to handle the heavy parts, be it a crane, A-frame, etc, then it"s not that bad of a job. The hardest part, to me, has always been getting the bolts out of the steering clutch. The way I always do it is to use a railroad jack under the rear of the track to move the machine forward, and cause the clutch pack to turn. Basically take the bolts you can get to out of the inner and outer ring, then jack the machine forward a bit to get more of the bolts into sight. Remove them and repeat the process. The main thing to remember is that the clutch pack needs to be connected on the outer ring of bolts to turn with the track, so don"t take all of them out until the last bolt in the inner ring is out. Then, what I do, is hook a small cable I"ve got in the brake linkage, once it"s loose, and use the brake band to support the clutch as the last bolt is taken out, and then to lift the assembly from the housing. Again, not that hard, it just appears intimidating because everything is heavy.

One thing I will suggest going back is to insure you"ve got ALL of the bolts in both the inner and outer ring of the steering clutch back in before tightening any of them beyond finger tight. Then take some kind of marker that will be visible and mark them as you go around to insure they all get tightened. It"s really easy to miss one otherwise.

Good luck.

I would get the procedure printed from the Cat manual. I had the engine and trans. out twice and it would have been near impossible without the procedure. The mounts for the trans. had to be completely taken off to have enough room to get it out. It would take a while to figure that out on my own. I have a cheap engine crane that may or may not still work, after sitting outside since the engine was out, but I also have a skid steer and a tractor with a loader for lifting things. I'm sure I could also rig up some kind of hoist from the ROPS. A friend is coming out to ride on Sunday and bringing his pressure washer so I can clean everything off. I hate to have to take it apart but maybe it's worth it to fix it right and have proper steering?

If you had both outer pedals down and it still went up a grade there is something wrong with the release pressure. You have enough to release the RH but lose pressure when the LH is used. I suspect the engine comes under load when attempting to steer Left.
Later Bob

Left side used to labor the engine but now does nothing.

i experienced a similar problem with my d3b dozer.it turned out to be a simple fix. the actuator bolted to the top of the case has a bearing on the end of it (similar to a cam follower) and the follower wheel bearing had gone bad . about a ten dollar part at that time and no deep dissasembly. good luck

I had both steering valves rebuilt at a cost of $500!

My other response was at work so I had to be quick. I'm wondering if there is anything else I should check that might fix the problems(s) without having to take everything apart? The engine was under load turning left and slowed the right side that was driving. There is no braking, no nothing with the left brake now which leads me to think that it has to come apart. Still wondering if I should work on getting the band support bolt out to check for moisture or oil in the case? Could mineral spirits improve the right side? I don't know if I should start tearing it apart or not.

You best take the LH cover off and have a look. Sounds like there was poor or no clutch release until you got the valves done. Lugging was due to the clutch not fully released. Now it may be releasing but a pin might have fallen out of the linkage. As you work on it take both brake rods off and try the levers by hand and compare them.
Later Bob

I got some of the dis-assembly procedure e-mailed to me but it said the fuel and hyd. tanks have to come off which has another procedure just for that. Can it be done without taking the tanks off? It looks like a BIG job taking everything apart. Is it as bad as it looks?

Slack the mounting bolts and let them lean out a bit.
Later Bob