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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially engaged

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RonNelson

02-03-2014 19:51:15
216.211.176.201



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My 1963 1010 had no power in forward, especially once it warned up. After changing the filter and testing pressures and finding low pressure with the reverser in forward, I pulled it and rebuilt it. I replaced piston rings and seals and forward clutch piston. Both of the clutch packs had one separator plate where the tabs were deliberately bent slightly and I straighten the reverse one. After reinstalling everything, I find that the reverse clutch pack is always partially engaged. With the reverser in either forward or reverse it will creep backward with the clutch depressed. With the clutch released it works fine in reverse, but strains in forward. I took the engine back out expecting the reverser to be jammed, but with the transmission in gear, I can spin the transmission shaft freely by hand.
I donít think it is a mechanical bind. I think reverser is always getting some pressure to reverse pack. The rotary valve was not touched or removed. I checked the gasket between the accumulator housing and forward-reverse valve housing, thinking there might be a leak through the gasket.

Before I pull the reverser out Iím looking for guidance. If the reverse clutch pack is not getting the 25 lbs pressure would this cause the partial engagement? Any other idea about how this could happen? Should I have left the reverse separator plate tabs bent? I could see tool marks and there was nothing in the manual about bending them.

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jdemaris

02-07-2014 05:13:05
70.194.3.115



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially engaged in reply to RonNelson, 02-03-2014 19:51:15  
This has nothing to do with the problem you asked about but . . what kind of shape is your drive-
disk in? Mine rattles a lot and I looked to see what a new one cost. I was in shock! Mine will stay until it goes - or maybe I'll go first.

The one-piece spring-loaded drive-disks used in 1010s and early 350s were a much better set-up that the convoluted mess Deere changed over to up through the C series. It resulted in many siezed engines and dead crawlers.

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Roy Suomi

02-06-2014 13:48:49
76.190.218.183



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially engaged in reply to RonNelson, 02-03-2014 19:51:15  
I made up an adapter that goes onto the front input shaft splines then to a low rpm heavy duty drill motor.. I can test a reverser on a 1010 or 350 while it's sitting on the ground.. Put a gauge in it , loop the cooler lines , fill with oil and spin it up with the drill motor.. Have someone "beefy" run the drill while you run the clutch lever and f-n-r control.. Saved me a lot of grief because of front pump leaks at the seal.. For some reason pump seals will leak from time to time...

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RonNelson

02-04-2014 21:39:01
216.211.176.201



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially eng in reply to RonNelson, 02-03-2014 19:51:15  
Well as much as I tried to find a simpler solution, the problem was the nut who put the reverser together. For the 100th time, I learned never work beyond 9:00 at night. I had two piston snap rings on the forward clutch and none on the reverse. Thank-you for you help. I learned a lot and have a much better understanding how the reverser operates.



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RonNelson

02-04-2014 12:37:13
216.211.176.201



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially eng in reply to RonNelson, 02-03-2014 19:51:15  
You're right the steels have inside tabs and my farthest to the outside had three of those tabs bent towards the inside on both forward and reverse packs. The clutch disks do have teeth on the OD and are bronze material. All the forward and reverse disks measured the same thickness. So in fixing forward, I've damaged reverse.
I did have the packs apart. Maybe I didn't get them back in the same order which compounded a warp problem. I can spin the input shaft freely clockwise. But, when I hold the output shaft while spinning the input shaft, it takes all my strength to keep the output shaft from turning counter-clockwise. Do you know if there should be drag? If so how much? It's always in reverse, so I must have screwed up the reverse pack, possibly when straightening the bent tabs. I should have just left the packs intact. I'll take it back apart.

Do you know any place to get the packs? Hopefully they are still a dealer item.

Thank-you so much. You have been very helpful. We I find the problem, I'll let you know.

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RonNelson

02-04-2014 09:15:17
216.211.176.201



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially eng in reply to RonNelson, 02-03-2014 19:51:15  
It is a John Deere 1010, sorry. I did replace the center roller bearing and inspected all the rest. Prior to buying this 1010, the reverser had been rebuilt and many of the parts like cone bearing and packs were good. I did adjust endplay to .003 using dial-indicator. I inspected oil-jet and blew air through. I have 18 PSI lube pressure, which never varied. I have 100 PSI at the test port, which dropped to 0 with clutch depressed, but tractor continued to back up slowly. Essentially I did everything that was in the instruction manual.
The only thing I did that was not in the manual was straighten all the tabs on the last steel separator in the reverse gear. I thought the tabs were bent during the last rebuild installation. Does anyone know why someone would bend those tabs deliberately?
I have removed the reverser and there is no drag what so ever. I will do the compressed air test and see if pressure to the center tube somehow causes reverse to engage.

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jdemaris

02-04-2014 11:00:34
70.194.4.7



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially eng in reply to RonNelson, 02-04-2014 09:15:17  
Seems you've been very thorough. I've seen many reverers sieze up 10 minutes after a "rebuild" when done by the wrong person. Most of the mechanics at the last Deere shop I worked at were not allowed to work on reversers, HL-Rs, or Powershifts. Just me and one other guy did those jobs. I guess we were the only two willing to read tech manuals and use a dial indicator.

18 PSI of lube/release pressure is plenty. It isn't going to be your problem.

In regard to outside tabs on your steel separator plates? You lost me. Maybe my memory is a bit off but as I recall, the steels have inside tabs. It's the clutch discs that have teeth on the OD. The old ones like what came OEM on 1010s and early 350s were some soft of bronze material on the clutch face. Later ones used some sort of thin fiber friction surface. All clutch discs had flat drive-tangs on the OD and none were twisted or bent. What you describe (clutch drag) often happens when a few discs or steels are warped. I'm wondering if you've got a few that lay flat when cold but warp a bit when warm? To be honest - we never reused any of the old discs. Dealer policy was always to install new ones. So my experience of putting the old bronze-faced used ones back in is almost nill. I have a 1960 1010 with a great working reverser that has never been apart since new. Just lucky, I guess. Mine runs 15 PSI on the lube port when warm and 95-105 PSI on clutch pressure.

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jdemaris

02-04-2014 05:51:43
70.194.8.48



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially engaged in reply to RonNelson, 02-03-2014 19:51:15  
I forgot to ask but I assume you are talking about a Deere 1010 with the Twin Disc reverser. When rebuilding - you can check your work with compressed air. With the assembled reverser on the floor and the control valve not yet installed - you can blow air into the one of the three oil-
delivery tubes to check -while you turn the input shaft. Center tube is for "lube" and "release."

What PSI are you reading in the lube-release port with the engine running?

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jdemaris

02-04-2014 05:48:09
70.194.8.48



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially engaged in reply to RonNelson, 02-03-2014 19:51:15  
Several things can caused one clutch pack to drag. If the plates are warped - it will always drag. If any pressure oil is getting to them - it will also drag. Lack of that 20 PSI "lube" pressure can cause much bigger problems.

One question. When you had it apart did you check the lube-oil jet that is screwed into the front of the main output shaft? If it was plugged or damaged - it will cause BIG problems. Often that center bearing assembly will melt or sieze. That is the weakest link in the reverser. Later reversers got larger updated center-bearings. If that bearing is damaged - it will also result in the machine working very hard when in hydraulic reverse. Maybe you were very careful. But most reverser failures I've seen after a rebuild - were caused by a bad oil-jet in that shaft and/or center-bearings ruined because they were not adjusted properly. You cannot adjust them by "feel" like wobbling the front shaft. The reverser must be upside down and end-play at the rear shaft checked with a dial-indicator. Put it a .002" to .004" and it will be good. Do not try to get the front shaft tight enough so it doesn't wobble.

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shinnery

02-03-2014 23:46:32
74.84.14.226



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 Re: Help- 1010 Reverser rebuild reverse always partially eng in reply to RonNelson, 02-03-2014 19:51:15  
Just curious, how many kinds of a 1010 could he be working on??



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