Need your thoughts about...

Stathamj

Member
I drove about 500 miles today for 12 hours looking at dozers that I found in my area. I would like to get your thought and ideas and see what others think about my choices. I will only talk about the best ones. But, one I won't get to look at till Wednesday.

The first one is a 1995 Komatsu D31P-16
Pro's Relatively new
price was good $14K
Undercarriage was 80%
Looked good not abused or mistreated.

CON's Smallest of the three
No sweeps or screens
Pyramid pads
It took 3-4 times more effort to turn left
It had oil dripping from the pan at a rate of about 1 drop every 3-4seconds. "He said "I might have over filled it"!

The second was a 1990 Case 850D
PRO's Middle sized of the three
Fairly new
Just rebuilt. All new undercarriage
Salt Rails, Pins and bushings, new pads.
Sweeps and screen, new filters fluids, etc.
Ran and operated fine.
6 month written warranty.

Con's Just rebuilt
Price $25K

The third was a JD 750 I haven't looked at yet The asking price is $18K. He said he has ran it and it ran fine. He said he'd pay to get an oil and hyd. sample done. He said that he wouldn't want to sell me a bad one. But, he said he can't see into the future. I was going to go tomorrow to look at it. But it will be Wednesday now. He said I could come run it all day if I'd like.

I look at the Komatsu and it has some problems. But, I could do a lot of work on it compared to the Case as it's half of the price. On the other had basically the Case is like brand new underneath and it has a warranty. But it cost twice as much. Then the JD 750 is in between. But, like others have said it's a 30 year old Hydrostat.

The Case might have better resale if I decide to sell it later on.

Is there anything else that I might not be thinking about that you might mention.

I know that the price of dozers here, Texas, always seems several thousand dollars more than in other parts of the country.

If you have any comments ideas suggestions I'd be happy to hear them. I want to get the best one I can. Since I don't know that much about them overall I'm trying to bounce my thoughts to everyone. Don't hesitate to comment. I need all of the info I can get.
 
Thanks. Are there any issues that you know of with the Case 850? Or, is it generally a good dozer?

Thank you for you input.

James
 
None that I am aware of but There probably someone on her that know more about cases than me. I have always heard good things about them. A six month warrenty is a real good deal on a 20 plus year old machine. none of us have x ray vision.
 
Pyramid pads are for swamps and the wider the pads, the faster the undercarriage wears out. I don't think pyramid pads would have near as much traction on drier ground as regular grousers. Have to find out where the oils coming from. Case are generally the lowest cost to buy and have the lowest resale. How many hours approx. on the Case? New undercarriage may have cost $10,000 but a lot of times you can't expect to get all your money back for it when you sell. It sounds like the Case is decent but the price may be a little high. Hard to say without seeing it. You could probably find a good Cat D3-D6 for $25,000. Look on machinery trader. It may list some used machines in your area and will give a lot of prices on different makes and models.
 
Thanks for the reply. The D31P-16 and the Case both have approximately 3700 to 3900 hours. According to the hour meter. So, who knows for sure. The problem here is, there aren't that many used dozers around like you'd think there would be. I'm not sure if it the oil buisness or what and generally they're about $5K more than other areas of the states. I do know that one equipment dealer said a lot of his go to Mexico. He said they come get them almost as fast as he gets them in. I did find some other dozers. But they were all going to need some U/C work at some point. Most were around 40-60%. These were the best I found. I just don't know about the D31P-16. I could replace the pads. But, the steering and oil leak still bothers me. I'm just not sure what might be involved in fixing them. I don't like the idea of spending twice the amount. But, at least it would have a warranty for a while. Better than most 20-25 year old used dozers.

James
 
850 Case of that era is a decent tractor, a place I worked had 2 of them, I've pushed off fill, graded top soil, cleared and grubbed, you'll get used to the small levers in the middle for turning. Nothing really stood out as being undesirable with this tractor as I recall, from an operators stand point. I used to haul it on a tandem (we call a tag trailer) axle 8 wheel trailer, with air brakes, behind a tandem L8000 Ford dump with a pintle hitch, 3208 CAT,was an easy haul for it. Sweeps and screens are nice for the brush and woods, also good for resale, someone will always want those features.

You will pay more for a mechanically sound tractor as this one sounds to be. Maybe your market is higher, but that price would seemingly get you a decent tractor around here, 15K-20K for older but that size give or take, usually appear to be worth looking at, none of this is subjective, you still have to check these very thoroughly before making a decision. Undercarriage checks out, you don't have any leaks, mechanical problems, I'd pay more for a sound tractor than not.

The Komatsu D31 is decent model, not sure what it needs or what you can do, but if you go with that one, as a fixer upper, you may be into it for what the Case 850 is worth as is. Swamp pads are for a purpose, no doubt you will be doing some undercarriage work if you won't be using it on soft ground. Its always been said, use the narrowest track pad as you can for the conditions you will work in. In addition to other work to make it into what you want, when said and done it may be good for what you need, but I'd still take an 850 Case over this tractor, having run both, each are fine, just preference. We had several of those D31's for grading topsoil and simuilar work for subdivisions, at another place I worked in southern NJ they performed well. Sometimes as an operator, having run a myriad of these size tractors, you will find your favorite one, but beyond that parts support, and mechanical aspects, ease of which they can be repaired should be considered as well, great to speak with a mechanic who works on them too.

Another place I worked had an 850 JD, one model bigger, but hydro, there is no way I would consider one of these, especially at that price or much less, there are much better options out there.
 
Thanks for the replies. I appreciate them. As a newb, I know are lots of things to learn. Especially, about used dozers. But, I would like to start out with the odds in my favor. At least as best as possible. I've seen where a lot complain about the small sticks for steering. But, like the engine. But, since I'm not an operator, I'm not used to anything. So, I won't have to make a transition to it. Here are some photos I took maybe everyone can give them a once over and tell me anything else to look for.
Like I said at least it has a 6 month warranty.
a137187.jpg

a137188.jpg

a137189.jpg

a137190.jpg

a137191.jpg

a137192.jpg

a137193.jpg

a137194.jpg

a137195.jpg

a137196.jpg

a137197.jpg

a137198.jpg
 
This thing gets talked about a lot on here. Bought,sold,built, ran and traded dozers for a big part of my life. The 31 , the dead killer is the pads. They are just not what you want. The 31 is really a pretty good little dozer almost the same as the td9h dresser. Down fall of the case is in affect you have TWO transmissions in that dozer not that is all bad but potential for costly repairs on a dozer that old. The John Deer 750 want have a 6 way and it also has two transmissions. Lots of d3 & d4ss for sale in the under 20 thousand range around me. Where are you located?
 
I bought a 1988 D31 P-17 last summer for 10k. It had brand new chains,pads, and sprockets. It needed rollers and a track adjuster fixed. It also steered hard to the right compared to the left. I knew all this going in, but I had committed to do a job, and the time frame got moved up by 6 months. I was going to shop around but I had to have one now. Dad and brought it home fixed the adjuster, greased it, changed the oil and put 300ish hrs on it that summer. Its a stout little dozer! I'm gonna try and get it fixed this winter, and run the fire out of it. That being said of what you listed I would go with the Case. Komatsu parts are scandalous! Case parts arent cheap but there a lot more reasonable than Komatsu. I believe if you look up the weight a 850 case is within 800 pounds of the komatsu. Its physically bigger but the weights are very similar. I would definitely avoid the Deere. Im very satisfied with my Komatsu, but in your situation with no limb riser's, screens and those pyramid pads, compared to the Case with those things and new undercariage, no known issues and a warranty Id go get the Case. Good luck which ever way you go!
 
I'm located in Texas. There aren't that many tractors around me. It seems that most are sent to Mexico. This is what one local dealer told me. I had to drive 2-1/2 hours to see one. So the selection is not that good and I don't have all of the time to drive everywhere looking for one. There are some auctions around. But, since I'm not that familiar with them or don't know of anyone who is I don't go to them. I looked on some of the online sites and only came up with 44 on one site and 19 on the other. Most of the are duplicates so there may only be 48 or so. Several are cheap but need U/C work. Some just look tired. I guess all of them have downfalls espaecially when it's coming out of your pocket to fix them. You just have to find the best one to fit your needs and budget for the jobs you intend. But, sometimes those jobs seem to increase after the purchase. I did find a 82 D3B online. Maybe I'll try to look at it Thursday. But, aas befor it's 2 hours away http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9371753

Thanks for the responses,

James
 
The Case does look good and 3900 hours is about the time for new undercarriage, depending. I still wouldn't trust a 1990 dozer to only have 3900 hours. The new paint is a bit of a concern LoL but then again a good paint job usually costs a few thousand dollars. I would see if you can get a mechanic or good operator to run/check it out for you. Not having to do a bunch of fixing right away is a big bonus and worth spending a little more for. Maybe you'd get it for $22,000?
 
Looks to be the same model I ran years ago. Stick welding is right, I think you would get under 2K hours before turning the pins, when that was more commonly done, often times depending on the conditions it was run and the operators habits.

The rails, (track links) certainly look good, lot of room between the pin bosses and bottom roller flanges, when the rails get worn, the bosses will start to hit, well on older ones, these are cut flat, so maybe theres more room, some would trim roller flanges off, then run til destruction or about that.

Not an excessively high hour tractor, but like was said hour meters can be changed or whatever but if there is some known or verifiable history of the tractor it could check out, mechanically sound, a new undercarriage, not uncommon to repaint, I've seen a lot of equipment that not only was properly overhauled, repainted as well. The one you don't want is some heavy equipment jockey, that just pressure washes and gives them the ole Dupont overhaul, then state this and that about what was done, in reality its just paint.

As long as you don't see any odd ball repairs to major castings/housings, track frames, 6 way blade, demos out to run fine at operating temperature, and no major leaks or any fluids showing signs of problems, its generally fair to say it would seem to be in good condition. I don't know much about the drive train in these, so again, with a 23 year old machine, wise to be as thorough as you can. Don't let me influence you, that post about the D31 sheds some light, I remember both of these as being decent tractors, I've run a fair amount of Komatsu way back when, they were reliable and parts support was good.

Those steering levers, no big deal, just different, and I suppose, like with their foot swing backhoes, you get used to it, I did not like the case footswing one bit, but if its what I had, I'd adapt to it. Its been 9 years since I ran a new dozer of this size, a brand new CAT D4G, and the controls on that were just incredible, so easy to operate, compared to older ones, that transition is a bit more to encumber, but any operator worth their salt, just adapts and moves on.
 
Well, I want to thank everyone for their replies. But, it was all for naught. After the bank and insurance called me back today. Not yesterday. I called to say I wanted it and he told me he sold it yesterday. I told him I needed a couple of days to get with the bank and insurance company. And, he sold it anyway. I wouldn't probably buy from them now, if they were the last place to buy one locally. I'd go out of state. Now I'm going to look at the 82 D3B I had mentioned. Bad part is the it's 2 hours away. So, hopefully this will go better. At least now I know I can get the money since it's less.

Again thanks for the replies.

James
 
As nice as that Case looks, it' not surprising it's gone. When I was dozer shopping, it seems someone warned me that a D3B only has one reverse speed. I may not be remembering correctly. Hopefully someone who knows for sure will reply.
I, to my surprise, ended up with a Fiat FD5. It has full power shift, three speeds in both directions, torque converter drive, with decelerator pedals, and pedal steer. Just what I wanted!
 
I have a 86 D3b_--absolutely love it--it has 16 inch pads and seems to float on swamp bog the universal on the drive shaft let go once and they are prone to have fuel delivery problems--mainly from a screen in the intake to the fuel transfer pump. They are made in Japan by Mitsubishi to Cat specs and the quality seems very good.
 
there are 2 transmission arrangements on the D3B--denoted by the serial # prefix--one is one reverse speed and the other 3 reverse speeds
27Y denotes the 3 speed reverse
23y denotes the one speed reverse
 
James ,do not know what part of your big state but have a long time friend in Tuscola Tx that sells a lot of used crawlers. Antone Kubacak better not put his phone number out here but think he is listed as Tuscola Tractor Sales. Always found him to be pretty straight shooting. Bought several from him and sold him a few over the years.
 
(quoted from post at 22:10:09 12/04/13) Well, I want to thank everyone for their replies. But, it was all for naught. After the bank and insurance called me back today. Not yesterday. I called to say I wanted it and he told me he sold it yesterday. I told him I needed a couple of days to get with the bank and insurance company. And, he sold it anyway. I wouldn't probably buy from them now, if they were the last place to buy one locally. I'd go out of state. Now I'm going to look at the 82 D3B I had mentioned. Bad part is the it's 2 hours away. So, hopefully this will go better. At least now I know I can get the money since it's less.

Again thanks for the replies.

James
Unless you put money down on it, or had an agreement that he would hold the machine for you for a certain length of time I don't see where you could have a beef with the seller. Look at it from his perspective.
 
"Unless you put money down on it, or had an agreement that he would hold the machine for you for a certain length of time I don't see where you could have a beef with the seller." Look at it from his perspective.

I don't know where you get off replying about something you don't have a clue about what was said. But, for your info, He said that it would be fine and to call him and let him know. He never said anything about a deposit when I told him that it would take a couple of days to get everything together.
I looked at it from a customer standpoint. If you say something you better mean it. Of all of the cars and planes that I've bought as well as other farm equipment I've never had another business sell something out from under me when your trying to purchase the item.

James
 
jm,

I've seen some of his listings. He's about 4 hours west of me. I've looked at his site several times. Sometimes just for farm equipment. I've also been looking for a tractor. But I will look at the site more often. Just in case. Thanks for the heads up.

James
 
(quoted from post at 13:53:40 12/05/13) "Unless you put money down on it, or had an agreement that he would hold the machine for you for a certain length of time I don't see where you could have a beef with the seller." Look at it from his perspective.

I don't know where you get off replying about something you don't have a clue about what was said. But, for your info, He said that it would be fine and to call him and let him know. He never said anything about a deposit when I told him that it would take a couple of days to get everything together.
I looked at it from a customer standpoint. If you say something you better mean it. Of all of the cars and planes that I've bought as well as other farm equipment I've never had another business sell something out from under me when your trying to purchase the item.

James
I guess you missed the "UNLESS" at the beginning of my reply.
 
Sorry you didn't get the case but I am sure you will get one. I am in the tractor/equipment business. and that guy should haved told the other guy he had to wait for you per your agreement with him. or atleast called you and told you he had someone else wanting to buy it and ask if you were still planning to buy it.
 
There's nothing wrong with the 1 speed reverse. Even in the Cat dealer guide, it says it's a lower cost option if you don't need higher drawbar pull in reverse or need to travel long distances in reverse. If you had to back up slopes the 3 speed reverse would be better but you'd never want to go in 3rd gear reverse anyway unless you liked spending money on undercarriage. High speed and reverse is the worst combination for accelerating undercarriage wear.
 
(quoted from post at 06:53:40 12/05/13) "Unless you put money down on it, or had an agreement that he would hold the machine for you for a certain length of time I don't see where you could have a beef with the seller." Look at it from his perspective.

I don't know where you get off replying about something you don't have a clue about what was said. But, for your info, He said that it would be fine and to call him and let him know. He never said anything about a deposit when I told him that it would take a couple of days to get everything together.
I looked at it from a customer standpoint. If you say something you better mean it. Of all of the cars and planes that I've bought as well as other farm equipment I've never had another business sell something out from under me when your trying to purchase the item.

James

James, not trying to stir the pot here but where I'm at money talks and BS walks. I have a farm equipment dealer here who knows me and knows that if I tell him I'll be back for I will. He doesn't do that with many people because he has too many "tire kickers" who never come back. So I'm curious about that in your neck of the woods. My BIL was looking for a tractor a couple of months ago in the 20-30K range. Found one he liked and told the dealer he'd be back. Dealer did call him a few days later and tell him that another guy had looked at it and was interested. So my BIL did put some money down on it. Thing is, was the dealer honest? Or did he lie to my BIL to get a firm commitment to buy?

Rick
 
Only difference i have found is that the 3 speed reverse 1st gear is lower than the single speed reverse--maybe important if you are backing up steep slopes
 
Stick may not be nothing wrong with 1 speed reverse but go to auction and see what one brings.
Just about impossible to get anything for one in my parts. Folks just consider the 1 speed reverse a cheap tractor in these parts. Easily knocks 2 to 3 grand off the price.
 
1 speed reverse is faster cause the 3 speed has more drawbar pull in 1st gear reverse. That's why it's recommended for slopes. Both trans. use the same torque converter but some people just figure the 3 speed is so much better. For most jobs it's not a big deal.
 
I agree Stick for most jobs that aren't on steep slopes--one has to determine if the one speed r is ok for your personal use--if you are in the Berkshire mountains like i am then the 3 spd R may be more suitable--however I have never operated a 1 spd R so i am only guessing!!!!
 
Don't think I've ever seen a job with a dozer that didn't involve as much travel backward as it did forward.

Depending on where you're working, the higher reverse speeds are more for fuel than time savings.

Unless you've got the tracks loose and slapping around, wear is going to be pretty close to the same per foot traveled regardless of speed.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top