Tips and advice on a D4c

I have found an older Cat D4C that fits my price range. Plus it's heavier than what I had been looking at previously. I went and looked at it and the owner ran it for me. I'll kind of give you a detailed analogy oh what went on.

He went out and put the key in and turned the glow plug on and it fired up on the first try. Let it warm up a bit and then moved it forward and backward. For what I know everything looked good. He then moved it from its parked location to a more open area and proceeded to do various turns and such at differant speeds. It never hesitated a bit. The only thing he didn't do that I've seen done was to raise the front of the dozer with the blade. He then proceeded to move up to a D7 with a cab and rippers. He started pushing the D7 some sideways. Of course the rippers were in the ground slightly preventing it from being pushed to much. But the tracks continued to turn. He then changed gears and tried it again and it moved some more. He then changed and when he tried this time you could hear it trying to stall out. I thought it did a respectable job as I didn't think it would even move the D7.

By no means am I a dozer whiz. But, I had looked at buying one several years ago on my farm/ranch. So, these are my estimates.
The idlers looked fairly new. The rollers looked almost brand new. The pins, bushings and rails looked good as well. But, after feeling of them I think they have been turned. Everything looked pretty good overall for a dozer this old. There were a few minor leaks on the blade lifting cylinders. I'm talking a few drops (not puddles) in 30 minutes of running. But, not working hard. Also the grousers were probably the weakest part and I would guestimate them to be around 30-35% and the rest of the undercarrage at 75-80%. The blade looked in pretty good shape as well and had new cutting edges installed. It hasn't even been used since then as the paint was still on them.

Now, here is where I need the most help with. The blade is a 10' manual angle and tilt. But, where the blade pivots on it's support and where the blade support attaches to the tractor I noticed that there was about a 1/4 of play in these 3 areas. I didn't notice any abnormalties because of it. I know that these will wear. I was just wanting to get some info and ideas and maybe something else to check before I purchase it. I don't know what, or how it can be fixed or what it would cost. But, this and the grousers are the weakest parts on the dozer. I believe everything else is in pretty good shape. I don't want these to prevent me from getting it as I realize it's 50 years old. But, I don't want these to be the money pit either. He also stated that he thought that a new set of grousers would cost about $1900.00. But, I don't remember if he said installed or plus installation.

Again any tips or knowledge you could pass on would we greatly appriciated.
Thank you.

James

One thing comes to mind is your estimation of undercarriage wear. You can't "eyeball" percentage of wear, or be very accurate by doing so. One needs to measure the components and compare to what new specifications are, do the math, then you'll know within good reason what the actual wear is.

That said, depending on the amount of hours you intend to put on the tractor, you can get quite a bit of life from an otherwise mechanically sound tractor, even if the tension adjusters are all the way out and the components are at say 25% left (not worn, but how much is left). What you want to avoid is an undercarriage that is just about completely worn, no adjustment left, which means loose tracks, prone to come off or it starts to self destruct. Or, an undercarriage that was that worn, someone took a link out, cut the bottom roller flanges off so the pin bosses do not hit the rails, (bottom of track links on the track chain). Reason I say this, is that you would be much wiser to find a tractor with a better undercarriage, for the money, as the replacement costs often times exceed the value of the tractor, + the aggravation of dealing with track problems.

On the other side of things, I believe the 4C was a decent model, don't know a lot about them, but having him put it through its paces, ( got it good and hot ) maneuvered it all around, showing its mechanically sound, and if in fact the undercarriage components check out, even with worn grousers, at the right price it might be just fine.

Some of the major and costly components to replace you do want to know are in field ready condition, or you can get a money pit of a tractor. One component being the final drives, you can dip a magnet into the oil compartment and see if you pick up any metal fines or bits of metal, and you can also pry against the final housing and drive sprocket to see if the sprocket is loose on the dead axle, this may help detect a bearing or other problem.

With these kinds of tractors, in my opinion, its a good idea to really know what you are getting, have an experience mechanic check it out or do as much as you can to determine if there are any serious problems.

Grouser height is not really a big problem, you can get slippage in certain conditions, also be aware that full height grousers, (new) will bite in agressively, and load the drive train more than worn, so if there are any issues with final drives, you might be more prone to exposing those, speculation for the most part but having full height and final drives with high hours, its like rebuilding the top end of an engine, increasing compression, but not doing anything to the bottom end, put a heavy load on it, its likely to cause something to fail.

There is a point where you need some grouser height, and if the finals are in good shape, you could likely weld on new grouser stock, do not exceed the OEM specified height if you do so. if the track pads are excessively worn, then it would be better to replace the pads, as both will cost you anyway, so why not the pads and the new bolts to hold them.

I've run similar era caterpillar D5's and D6's with worn undercarriages and little grouser left, on a farm, part time use, any of those tractors would served good purpose for a long time, you just don't want one with hidden but very worn components that are due to fail.

The excess play in the blade components is to be expected, but if the tractor is mechanically sound, undercarriage as you state, checks out, thats something worth rebuilding, sloppy blade is hard to grade with, and there is likely a way to build up the worn parts, salvage parts or something. It sounds like this tractor has a C frame and or possibly a 4A type Cat blade, and the track frame trunions are worn, as is the pivot, I would have to think those could be repaired by a competent welder, mechanic etc. New or better trunions, built up, both the trunions, and the bore of the C frame, something should be able to be done with that, its nice to have a tight or reasonably tight blade, I've run a lot of worn one, just takes getting used to, but can be a pain to grade, or cut in say sod when removing top soil etc, loose material won't be hard, its mostly holding a uniform cut. Blade having new end bits and cutting edges, thats a plus. From the sounds of it, could likely be a decent tractor needing some repairs, but you should determine that by reason, not by eyeballing.

You can look at the track frames, check for any major repairs, suspect welds, that and some of the main castings or housings, etc, some tractors are worked hard, in harsh conditions by abusive operators, it usually shows somewhere, and those are tractors to avoid. Hopefully some help here !
Measuring Undercarriage

I have a 1955 D4--Mine has quite a bit more than 1/4 inch play where the push arms connect to the track frame--the wear is normal and can usually be built up with weld and grinding.
Its very common to weld on grouser bars to the existing grousers--I have done this on two machines
there are track specs that show percent of wear on pins and bushings and also on rail height.