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My first tractor! Case 411b needs love, could use advice.

L

Lovinlife

New User
Hello ladies and gentlemen

So I bought a 1958 case 411b wide front with a loader and back blade with 1940ish hours for 500. Its been sitting for most the past decade in a garage only used briefly once about two years ago by a neighbor who was interested in it but ultimately decided he didnt want to deal with an old 2wd during the winter here in MT.

This tractor was a tool but was maintained by all accounts. Being that the previous owner is in his 90s with health issues I have not had the honor of being able to talk tractor with him and may never as his primary residence is in CA. Another neighbor has played middle man for us through email but responses are very slow as this is his second home too. I am trying to get the 411b out of their garage over to mine so I can really tear it apart and begin the restoration. Currently ive got it to run for about 10 min by just siphoning and refilling the tank and putting a trickle charger on the battery. It died after I let off the gas from revving it and was unable to get it started again. The greater concern was that I had no movement from any of the hydraulics so I couldnt raise the bucket or blade in order to test drive it. No hydraulic pump or valve sounds nada. The dipstick infront of and to the right of the gear shift was barely registering fluid which based on my limited research is the hydraulic slash rear end reservoir. There is light amber liquid leaking from several places on the body and pooled in drip pans underneath but I havent isolated from where yet as I dont want to start digging until its in my garage if possible. Do you guys feel its worth topping off the hydraulic fluid and retrying or is the lack of any sound other than the motor something else I should be concerned of

The tractor apparently has a manual somewhere but Im waiting to hear back where and which kind before I pay the 66 for a new one.

I apologize for being long winded but I like to be thorough thank you for your time and any wisdom.

Cheers

Ps I had to really butcher this in order to get it through the filter to post.
 
When looking for a manual, you need, of course the factory owners or operators manual, but spend some
time and locate the CASE FACTORY service manual for the tractor. The others on the market are fit alls
that cover many makes, many years and do not get into enough description to be really helpful. Ebay is a
good source along with the many original literature dealers that work with Agricultural literature. A
good factory shop, even a reproduction will set you back $100 or so, although dog earred greasy shop
examples are around for less. Information is critical and don't be shy about asking questions on this
site. These guys are here to help
 
Thank you for the reply warrior,

Yesterdaystractors lists a reprint Case 411b service manual for 53 dollars, is this the one you speak of? Ebay had ones for multiple models like you said but none specific to the 411b. Would there be any reason youd want both the owners manual and the service manual?
 
A 411B should be a torque converter drive, which is a little different. There is no dry clutch, the clutch pedal operates a valve which directs oil flow to the
torque converter or dumps that presssure when the clutch is depressed. Oil reservoir needs to be full and filter clean. Use of a good grade of Hydraulic
Transmission fluid is important. My owners manual called for 10wt motor oil but better alternatives are available today. I can't remember if the same reservoir
supplies the hydraulic lift system. It may also be that the forward reservoir requires HTF while the rear reservoir (final drive) uses gear lube. The also maybe
back to HTF in the PTO unit if it is the independent type.

I very much like the torque converter drive but they are much misunderstood. Keep the fluit and filter clean and they work for a long time. Generally there is
a lever to the right of the steering wheel which locks up the torque converter during heavy pulling. Stepping on the clutch will also release the lock-up.
 
A couple things to be said about a leaking tractor. One, if they are not leaking, better check all the fluids. two if they are leaking, better check all the fluids. I've never been around a 411b, but like any tractor that age, some gaskets and seals are gonna drip some. Sounds like you've made a great deal to me. Drain the fuel tank put in fresh gas, get a new battery, top off the fluids and you'll probably get it going enough to get it trailered home, where you can get acquainted with you NEW tractor. gobble
 
Owners manual will tell you how to run it and take care of it, Service manual/shop manual will tell you step by step how to take it apart,
fix it, and put it back together correctly. As oldproudvet says get an actual Case service manual, IT shop manuals aren't really worth the
paper they are printed on most of the time. Good luck, I'd like to have a 411 myself.
 
Thank you guys for the input and humor, sounds like im going to just buy all 3 manuals if I can find them, parts, shop and operators that is. The only one labeled Case 411b specifically ive found is http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/CAS300300B_2158.htm for the shop manual. Everything else lists several series together i.e. 200,300&400. What reputable place do you guys recommend I find the legitimate ones needed?

Cheers
 
(reply to post at 20:03:03 06/17/18)
Click to expand...

Editing is temporarily disabled apparently, I figured out how to look up manuals on yesterdaystractors so disregard that part. Ill figure out what fluid goes where and get back to you guys! Thank you!
 
(quoted from post at 05:33:24 06/18/18) Is this a smaller 410 series, or the bigger 400 series? My former BIG 400 said 411 on the dash plate.
Click to expand...
ttp://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/18463.jpg
I hope its a 411b otherwise i just got the wrong manuals! Lol
 
Its alive

Almost died twice on it today though.

Took 3 gallons of hydraulic fluid a fresh battery and a good warm up to get it to idle and work as it should. Found out that I cant count on the breaks worth manure though on a slope... I stood on them twice when I wasnt able to get into gear because I was rolling down hill and boy was that a butt puckering experience. Im gonna drive it to work tomorrow so that my Montana country status is irrefutable.

Any ideas on whats wrong with the brakes? Ive another week before the manuals get here so any insight would be appreciated. Im seriously considering retrofitting disc brakes at this point.
 
(quoted from post at 05:09:19 06/21/18) Its alive

Almost died twice on it today though.

Took 3 gallons of hydraulic fluid a fresh battery and a good warm up to get it to idle and work as it should. Found out that I cant count on the breaks worth manure though on a slope... I stood on them twice when I wasnt able to get into gear because I was rolling down hill and boy was that a butt puckering experience. Im gonna drive it to work tomorrow so that my Montana country status is irrefutable.

Any ideas on whats wrong with the brakes? Ive another week before the manuals get here so any insight would be appreciated. Im seriously considering retrofitting disc brakes at this point.
Click to expand...


You better wait until your operators manual come before you start driving you tractor down the road. What's wrong with your brakes? The brake seals are leaking transmission oil on the brake disc. What kind of oil did you put in the torque tube? Case-O-Matic drive tractors us 10w motor oil or automatic transmission oil type A. Case/IH trans/hydraulic fluid is a good alternative to use.
 
(quoted from post at 04:31:44 06/21/18)
(quoted from post at 05:09:19 06/21/18) Its alive

Almost died twice on it today though.

Took 3 gallons of hydraulic fluid a fresh battery and a good warm up to get it to idle and work as it should. Found out that I cant count on the breaks worth manure though on a slope... I stood on them twice when I wasnt able to get into gear because I was rolling down hill and boy was that a butt puckering experience. Im gonna drive it to work tomorrow so that my Montana country status is irrefutable.

Any ideas on whats wrong with the brakes? Ive another week before the manuals get here so any insight would be appreciated. Im seriously considering retrofitting disc brakes at this point.
Click to expand...

I used Hy-tran ultraction sold to me by the case dealer, 10w was not available anywhere from autozone to the case dealer. 95% sure its not the fluid as my neighbor who said no to it 2 years before me added no fluid and complained about the brakes not working too.
Click to expand...
 
Just had to check. My original Case manuals for my 611B cover 350, 500, and 600 series tractors, sorry not the 400. But it's a Case-O-Matic like yours and will be similar in maintenance. Your COM/hydraulic reservoir should have ATF type A (dex/merc) or (better) Case Hytran or TSC's equivalent. 10-weight can allow the clutch to slip instead of the torque converter. Disengage the "direct drive" lever manually, if the lever is stiff like mine you can break the part that disengages it when you step on the clutch. When I did it the broken part took out a seal on the control valve and caused a major leak. 85w140 in the final drive (fill plug under the seat). Ethylene glycol-base antifreeze mixed 50% with distilled water in the radiator (good idea for your car too; can't get calcium deposits if no calcium is present). Brand name motor oil in motor, weight depending on temps and condition of motor, look for 15-20 psi oil pressure. Most of this stuff is in the owner's manual, but we have better lubricants than they did then. Sounds like your carb is a bit gummed up and it's running lean, drain the tank completely (remove it and flush it if necessary) and run a few gallons of fresh fuel through it. Turn the little screw in for richer, the big screw out for richer mixture if it's like my carb (again owner's manual or service manual). 1/8 turn or so at a time and adjust only with motor fully warmed up. Mine ices up for about 10 minutes before it wants to run right, even in late-spring Arizona weather. Driving and maintaining a tractor calls for patience in large quantity.
18606.jpg
 
(reply to post at 20:31:50 06/21/18)
Click to expand...

Thats solid advice Kevin thank you. I have 5 gallons of case dealer recommended gear oil for the back end but I don’t think it needs any as the fluid was at the ridge on the dipstick attached to the large bolt. Hydraulics got hy-tran. This weekend will be engine oil change, cleaning and possibly a coolant flush.
 

There's a 98% chance the brake seals have been leaking for a long time. You will need to address this issue if you if you want brakes that work. Never drive down hill when in torque converter drive. The tractor free wheels when you do this, and your greasy brakes won't stop you.
 
(quoted from post at 05:35:59 06/22/18)
There's a 98% chance the brake seals have been leaking for a long time. You will need to address this issue if you if you want brakes that work. Never drive down hill when in torque converter drive. The tractor free wheels when you do this, and your greasy brakes won't stop you.
Click to expand...

That is definitely on the menu then, thank you. About the going down hill part... done it already quite a bit... as long as im in 1or2D or any gear L its a pleasant meandering experience. The times I had the roller coaster ride were when I couldn’t get into gear to begin with so im certain im getting engine braking out of it.
 
(quoted from post at 04:06:06 06/24/18)
(quoted from post at 05:35:59 06/22/18)
There's a 98% chance the brake seals have been leaking for a long time. You will need to address this issue if you if you want brakes that work. Never drive down hill when in torque converter drive. The tractor free wheels when you do this, and your greasy brakes won't stop you.
Click to expand...

That is definitely on the menu then, thank you. About the going down hill part... done it already quite a bit... as long as im in 1or2D or any gear L its a pleasant meandering experience. The times I had the roller coaster ride were when I couldn’t get into gear to begin with so im certain im getting engine braking out of it.
Click to expand...


Do you experience any trouble getting into gear from neutral? You should have the engine speed at around 500-600rpm for smooth shifting when you start out. If it gives you too much trouble you can start the engine with it the gear you want to use. After everything is warmed up it should shift into gear easier. Shifting can also be difficult if you use a trans/hydraulic fluid that is heavier than type A automatic transmission fluid. Dexron-Mercon automatic transmission fluid is a good replacement for the type A fluid I mentioned above. Post a few pictures of the tractor for us. We like to look at pictures of tractor.
 
(quoted from post at 22:11:41 06/23/18)
(quoted from post at 04:06:06 06/24/18)
(quoted from post at 05:35:59 06/22/18)
There's a 98% chance the brake seals have been leaking for a long time. You will need to address this issue if you if you want brakes that work. Never drive down hill when in torque converter drive. The tractor free wheels when you do this, and your greasy brakes won't stop you.
Click to expand...


Do you experience any trouble getting into gear from neutral? You should have the engine speed at around 500-600rpm for smooth shifting when you start out. If it gives you too much trouble you can start the engine with it the gear you want to use. After everything is warmed up it should shift into gear easier. Shifting can also be difficult if you use a trans/hydraulic fluid that is heavier than type A automatic transmission fluid. Dexron-Mercon automatic transmission fluid is a good replacement for the type A fluid I mentioned above. Post a few pictures of the tractor for us. We like to look at pictures of tractor.
Click to expand...

I have had some issues grinding when trying to get into gear, mostly times that I didn’t let the rpms drop all the way before trying or when the drive train was still moving (ie downhill). Hard to properly test without brakes, the times ive shifted im usually going slow enough that by the times the engine is at idle its stopped before im ready with the next gear. Im also not sure my dials are working at 100% but ill make it a point to watch rpms now. I topped whatever was in the hydraulics off with hy-tran, Kind of just went off what other forum posts said along with the dealer. I am experiencing shuddering when i lift the loader, I expect its air in the line from not topping the hydraulic fluid off faster than i was messing with the controls. Hope these pics load, thank you all for the wisdom!
Click to expand...
 

The loader shuddering could be from not enough oil in the torque tube. You need to overfill the torque tube a little for hydraulic cylinders being added to the tractor.

You should figure on changing the hydraulic oil, and clean/replace the filters. There is one filter above the toque tube, and one in front of the radiator. Your operators manual will instruct you on how to do that. We're still waiting for some pictures of the tractor. :)
 
I don?t know whats wrong, I can select a pic but pushing the upload button does nothing. I am on a pretty new ipad and haven?t had this issue
anywhere else. I want to show Casey the Casomatic off to everyone!
 
(quoted from post at 14:43:28 06/24/18) I don?t know whats wrong, I can select a pic but pushing the upload button does nothing. I am on a pretty new ipad and haven?t had this issue
anywhere else. I want to show Casey the Casomatic off to everyone!
Click to expand...
robably you're just too new to post pics. Keep posting and sooner or later it'll work. We'll be looking for it!
 
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