Case 530CK - Whats the white stuff?

Jeepin

New User
Hey everyone, new here from NH, new to tractors and new to diesel. I build Jeeps and other things and needed/wanted to get into tractors. I am trying to learn about what this issue may be before tearing anything apart.

For a background, the tractor is roughly a late 60's Case 530CK (D530CB on tag) with backhoe and loader. Previous owner had this for around 15 years and replaced all the piston seals, re-painted it, rebuilt the transmission among other things. None of the gauges work but the tractor runs good. I used it all summer last year on projects around the house, moving dirt and digging some holes. No issues until the end of the season.

Issue: Between what I would call the transmission bell housing and the engine, there is white liquid that pumps out between the cracks. After talking to some people the thought is it may have to do with the hydraulic system and not the engine. The engine still seems to run fine, but when I turn the tractor on it immediately starts pumping this white stuff out. Would it be low on hydro fluid and air is causing this, or would it be something else? I know it needs some fluid added but didnt want to do anything until learning what this might be. I attached some photos below.

Thanks in advance!


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"White Stuff" is a mixture of oil and water. From your pictures, I notice the cup plug located at the back of the engine head is
oozing. I'm guessing coolant is running down the back of the engine and mixing with hydraulic oil or maybe even a diesel fuel
leak. Bunch of lines in that area that could be "drippy".
 

Thanks for the reply. I should have started by saying I know what white can be, i have done head gaskets on gas engines and dealt with mixing problems, but the amount of fluid that gets pumped out is far more than anything I have ever seen, and it pumps up and out from where you see that gasket behind the engine block in the last photo. I can't imagine a rear main seal or the engine for that matter can pump fluid out at the rate it does. Maybe water got into the hydraulic system... Would there be a hydraulic pump inside the bell housing?

I agree definitely some drips and leaks, I know the fuel filter off to the left leaks and need attention. Next warm day I can try to start the tractor up and take a video of what it does. This liquid does not freeze.
 
(quoted from post at 14:28:27 04/03/18)
Thanks for the reply. I should have started by saying I know what white can be, i have done head gaskets on gas engines and dealt with mixing problems, but the amount of fluid that gets pumped out is far more than anything I have ever seen, and it pumps up and out from where you see that gasket behind the engine block in the last photo. I can't imagine a rear main seal or the engine for that matter can pump fluid out at the rate it does. Maybe water got into the hydraulic system... Would there be a hydraulic pump inside the bell housing?

I agree definitely some drips and leaks, I know the fuel filter off to the left leaks and need attention. Next warm day I can try to start the tractor up and take a video of what it does. This liquid does not freeze.

Jeepin,

That tractor has a torque converter drive and the bell housing is wet, oil is free to leak into that area in fact there was no provision to seal the torque converter from leaking into that housing, I think you will find the bell housing gasket has failed and will require a split to replace the gasket.

Mel
 
My guess is you have a seal for the pump or torque converter out and it filled the bell housing full and then pressurized it to push out crack. Pull the starter
out and see if oil runs out. If that's the case I'd say the tractor needs to be split.
 
(quoted from post at 23:15:23 04/03/18) My guess is you have a seal for the pump or torque converter out and it filled the bell housing full and then pressurized it to push out crack. Pull the starter
out and see if oil runs out. If that's the case I'd say the tractor needs to be split.

Oliver, those tractors were my lifeblood in their day, there is no TC pump in there and the TC has no positive lip seals , only hook type seals which have a natural leakage. The bell housing is supposed to be wet with drive oil and the BH and LDR hydraulics are a separate external system, the only other pump other than the TC pump which hangs on the cover underneath the fuel tank and if the tractor would have a 3 point hitch or remote hydraulics an additional pump would be on that plate, That Twin Disc converter is not a welded up deal like an automobile but is totally disassembled and repairable. BTW, the starters also are a sealed unit with a seal in the center plate to keep the converter oil from the front of the starter. If you look at the pictures you will see a line that fastens to the top cover and goes forward toward the front of the tractor, in front of the radiator the TC filter is located and then the oil is sent into a cooler in the bottom tank of the radiator, the oil then comes back in another line and goes into the TC control valve.
 
(quoted from post at 23:49:45 04/03/18)
(quoted from post at 23:15:23 04/03/18) My guess is you have a seal for the pump or torque converter out and it filled the bell housing full and then pressurized it to push out crack. Pull the starter
out and see if oil runs out. If that's the case I'd say the tractor needs to be split.

Oliver, those tractors were my lifeblood in their day, there is no TC pump in there and the TC has no positive lip seals , only hook type seals which have a natural leakage. The bell housing is supposed to be wet with drive oil and the BH and LDR hydraulics are a separate external system, the only other pump other than the TC pump which hangs on the cover underneath the fuel tank and if the tractor would have a 3 point hitch or remote hydraulics an additional pump would be on that plate, That Twin Disc converter is not a welded up deal like an automobile but is totally disassembled and repairable. BTW, the starters also are a sealed unit with a seal in the center plate to keep the converter oil from the front of the starter. If you look at the pictures you will see a line that fastens to the top cover and goes forward toward the front of the tractor, in front of the radiator the TC filter is located and then the oil is sent into a cooler in the bottom tank of the radiator, the oil then comes back in another line and goes into the TC control valve.

In addition, there are channels cast into the side of the bell housing to take the oil slung up by the flywheel as it is rotating to take it back into the main reservoir.
 
(quoted from post at 20:04:31 04/03/18)
Jeepin,

That tractor has a torque converter drive and the bell housing is wet, oil is free to leak into that area in fact there was no provision to seal the torque converter from leaking into that housing, I think you will find the bell housing gasket has failed and will require a split to replace the gasket.

Mel

Mel,

Ok that is definitely what I was looking to know, I thought it may be due to that gasket, as you can see if flopping out on top of the bell housing. It sounds like you are very familiar with these so I appreciate the input. From the parts manual it appears this would be Ref 19, part# G46876 (same as #1342774C1). I will have to find a repair manual. Do you know if I am able to just separate the housings a little and slip the gasket in, or would it be an extensive removal? It also appears I would need to pull the drain plug prior to this, and I assume I would find this white oil draining out.

Thanks.

Anthony
 
(quoted from post at 08:42:41 04/04/18)
(quoted from post at 20:04:31 04/03/18)
Jeepin,

That tractor has a torque converter drive and the bell housing is wet, oil is free to leak into that area in fact there was no provision to seal the torque converter from leaking into that housing, I think you will find the bell housing gasket has failed and will require a split to replace the gasket.

Mel

Mel,

Ok that is definitely what I was looking to know, I thought it may be due to that gasket, as you can see if flopping out on top of the bell housing. It sounds like you are very familiar with these so I appreciate the input. From the parts manual it appears this would be Ref 19, part# G46876 (same as #1342774C1). I will have to find a repair manual. Do you know if I am able to just separate the housings a little and slip the gasket in, or would it be an extensive removal? It also appears I would need to pull the drain plug prior to this, and I assume I would find this white oil draining out.

Thanks.

Anthony

Oh and I do now also see the clutch main drive shaft, so that would of course need to be pulled far enough apart to get the gasket around it. I see a small gasket the engine side of the drive shaft, and a thrust washer on the torque tube side.
 
Good to know I have same tractor but gas engine instead. Had the starter out on mine and oil didn't run out but I seen starter was little "wet" and figured it was
coming from rear main didn't realize they are wet bellhousing.
 
I'm thinking that gasket blew because there is too much fluid in that system and it had to go somewhere. A very small amount of water in that oil could be due to normal condensation, that amount that you see has to be an active leak. Radiator maybe? In any case you need to track that down before the major repair involving splitting the tractor, unless you feel you need the practice of doing it twice!
 
Welcome Jeepin! I have an earlier machine like yours. I had to repair a similar leak and had to remove backhoe and loader. I then had to split machine behind engine. Big job yet doable. mEl was a huge help. Why its white stuff leaking out I'm not sure. Mine was steadily dripping underneath from same crack between engine and torque tube. The torque tube is what you could call a bell housing yet its a torque tube that attaches to engine and extends right back to the manual transmission. I suggest collect a bunch of the white liquid and put it in a jar to see if its a mixture of water and oil overnight. Your engine oil dipstick oil is black right? The torque tube\torque converter dipstick is to left of brake pedal on mine. That oil seems to stay very clear on my machine so you can see if its white? I use the clear TCH HI\LOW CASE fluid yet have heard others have used other stuff so it ma be red or ?. I suggest run your machine for a few minutes and check color of torque tube oil. To drain torque tube there are two pipe plugs. To completely drain torque tube there is another step. I'd try that first before I confuse you any further.
 
You may be able to unbolt loader from either side of engine and move engine ahead off torque tube a bit to insert a piece of gasket. Previous owner of my machine took engine out without removing backhoe or loader to rebuild engine.
 
(quoted from post at 20:08:20 04/04/18) You may be able to unbolt loader from either side of engine and move engine ahead off torque tube a bit to insert a piece of gasket. Previous owner of my machine took engine out without removing backhoe or loader to rebuild engine.

My loader attaches to rear differential tube brackets and also near front of engine frame. I think past owner removed radiator and engine forward and up. I ended up rebuilding my torque converter so it was a lot easier with loader totally removed.
 
the white stuff is oil filled with water and becoming frothy when the flywheel churns it around,
An easy split, take the grill out and remove the suction hoses from each side of the loader frames, then remove the short pipes from the frame so the radiator can pass as it moves front, the engine can be moved ahead as a complete unit. securely block up the loader at full height and put a heavy angle iron on the cylinder rod to keep the loader securely up secure that with stainless hose clamps so it cannot fall, lower the backhoe and block up securely and also put blocks or jacks under the two frames at the front of the backhoe mounting frames up front, you will need that somewhat adjustable to reassemble so we always used bottle jacks there. Remove the 4 3/4 bolts at the front at the radiator, block the front end with wedges where the axle pivots so the engine cannot flop side ways when the engine moves off its rear bolts. everything that needs to be disconnected must be and the entire engine and assembly can be rolled out on a floor jack.

The reason the gasket failed is because the split was not tight. There is a large vent tube back by the battery and that vents the whole system, I have never seen one so plugged it would cause that much pressure. Keep me posted and I and others who truly know that system will talk you though it.
 
Cariboo4x4 - Thanks for the welcome and input! I am not familiar enough with all the dip sticks yet, I will say I should have done a little more maintenance on the machine last season, but it was a very busy year and just before the snow flew my water main broke between my water well and the house, so I had to dig a giant hole to repair the pipe. Lucky for me I had the tractor and saved myself thousands over paying someone to come in. The day after I filled the whole in we got our first big snow! So I parked the tractor and decided I would deal with things later...

mEl - Ok that is great info! And I did learn a couple things yesterday; 1, i talked to the previous owner to see if he had any ideas, plus I knew he still had the original service manual which I am going to grab from him, but he also told me just what you say, to disassemble the front end and roll the motor forward. Also while looking around the leak, there are 2 main studs that stick from the engine through the torque tube, and nuts go on to tighten them together; well the nut to the left is missing! So only one top nut was holding the 2 together. The bottom and side nuts and bolts all appeared to be there. The gasket piece sitting on top of the torque tube is completely severed from the rest of the gasket, i thought it was just folding over. Can you use RTV gasket maker on something like this similar to a differential cover? Where I could just move them apart slightly and squeeze the tube in? I also know there is a Teflon gasket tape one of my suppliers sell. I will check all the vents and plan to drain the bad oil out of course. It will be a little bit before I get time to jump all the way into this project, but I will definitely report back as I go. Thanks again.
 

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