Repairing cluster on 611b

jbshocks

Member
I know their are gauge restoration services out their but I have been quoted 600 to make my cluster like new. I am not really interested in going that far with it. I just want to fix my temp gage and I would like it to be inside the stock cluster. I am assuming that people gut the internals from some other gauge and put them in the cluster. I am sure I can handle the retro fitting but is there a typical gauge to be used as a replacement? The key would seem to be something with a similar sweep to it.
 
Ill throw this up here as an option. I have posted before about it and I believe the gentleman who actually makes them posted as
well.

I got this replacement insert and installed it and have been very happy with it.
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This is a nice looking set up but I really don't want to do that. I just want to fix the broken temp gauge. Does anyone know of gauge wehre I can remove the guts and put it in my cluster?
 
(quoted from post at 16:30:51 03/05/18) This is a nice looking set up but I really don't want to do that. I just want to fix the broken temp gauge. Does anyone know of gauge wehre I can remove the guts and put it in my cluster?

I went the same route as Ben did with the aluminum dash panel. I have also been curious about where the replacement gauges come from that the person that rebuilds the Case gauge clusters uses.
 
This probably isn't much help but I remember a discussion somewhere about an old car gauge (perhaps a Lincoln) that used very similar setup as the case dash cluster. That is about all I remember of it. Might
do some internet searches on old car oil gauges.

I have attached a link below to one that is similar.
Similar Gauge
 
One of the guys that was restoring the Stewart Warner gauges like these on the hundred series was using an electric gauge and cutting it down to fit. There are all kind of gauges in the speed catalogs.
 
Barry is right, electrical gauge is a common replacement for the mechanical temperature gauge in SW cluster panels. You can use any 2" or 2-1/8" SW 240-33 ohm resistance gauge as in pic, doesn't matter what face plate gas, oil, temp, SW 240-33 ohm resistance gauges have the same movement, just use different type senders. The gauges are obsolete but are often ebay items. The two in the pic are the range you want to fit in the cluster temp gauge opening.

Your gas gauge has the same movement as the 2 gauges in the pic. You will probably end up buying a used gauge that may be 40-50 or more years old, you can use the your gas gauge wiring and float to check it out or wire it up separately before going to all the work of installing it. Looking at the back of the gauge the right terminal is switched 12v power to the movement, the left terminal is out to the sender, the ground to complete the 12v circuit may be a third terminal or more commonly grounds through the gauge case.

You need to drill holes for the gauge terminals in the pod. On the replacement gauge cut the bezel and carefully remove the movement from the case. Replace the existing faceplate with you Case temperature faceplate. You will need to drill new holes lower on the Case temp faceplate to orient correctly in the dash opening. The gauge movement ground is a copper strip on the back of the movement that is in good contact with the metal back of the pod. The terminals must be insulated from the pod where they pass through the holes.

The correct temperature sender is Case p/n A21462. I use to buy the sender at Napa but can't find the Napa nr, they should be able to cross-ref for you, 240-33 ohm senders use to be very common but you need the one that threads into your engine which all the ones I have done were 1/2" npt.

Last pic is the electrical movement for SW 240-33 ohm resistance gauge.

Been 7-8 years since I have done one of the Temp gauge swaps, don't have many good pics, or can't find them.
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(quoted from post at 21:31:47 03/05/18) Barry is right, electrical gauge is a common replacement for the mechanical temperature gauge in SW cluster panels. You can use any 2" or 2-1/8" SW 240-33 ohm resistance gauge as in pic, doesn't matter what face plate gas, oil, temp, SW 240-33 ohm resistance gauges have the same movement, just use different type senders. The gauges are obsolete but are often ebay items. The two in the pic are the range you want to fit in the cluster temp gauge opening.

Your gas gauge has the same movement as the 2 gauges in the pic. You will probably end up buying a used gauge that may be 40-50 or more years old, you can use the your gas gauge wiring and float to check it out or wire it up separately before going to all the work of installing it. Looking at the back of the gauge the right terminal is switched 12v power to the movement, the left terminal is out to the sender, the ground to complete the 12v circuit may be a third terminal or more commonly grounds through the gauge case.

You need to drill holes for the gauge terminals in the pod. On the replacement gauge cut the bezel and carefully remove the movement from the case. Replace the existing faceplate with you Case temperature faceplate. You will need to drill new holes lower on the Case temp faceplate to orient correctly in the dash opening. The gauge movement ground is a copper strip on the back of the movement that is in good contact with the metal back of the pod. The terminals must be insulated from the pod where they pass through the holes.

The correct temperature sender is Case p/n A21462. I use to buy the sender at Napa but can't find the Napa nr, they should be able to cross-ref for you, 240-33 ohm senders use to be very common but you need the one that threads into your engine which all the ones I have done were 1/2" npt.

Last pic is the electrical movement for SW 240-33 ohm resistance gauge.

Been 7-8 years since I have done one of the Temp gauge swaps, don't have many good pics, or can't find them.
a260163.jpg

a260164.jpg

a260165.jpg

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Perfect, just what I needed. I have a box of old SW gauges somewhere. I need to dig those up and see if I have any good candidates. I took a quick look on amazon and it appears the trouble with current gauges is that they all use a needle that presses onto a shaft. I think I will give this a shot.
 
Thanks guys I bought one on eBay does
anyone buy the old ones I have a
couple of them was thinking of putting
them on eBay thanks again for the help
 
(quoted from post at 14:53:26 03/06/18)
Do the case gauges have SW guts?

Case used both Stewart Warner and Delco gauges up into the 70's maybe later. SW has name or logo on face plate, loook at the gauge pics again.

Joe
 
These are early gauges used up at least into the 70"s.

Use an ohm meter, sender terminal to ground. Resistance readings are nominal.

Delco 0-30 ohms temp or gas low to high. Also 0-90 ohms temp or gas low to high.

SW reads opposite and higher than Delco, 240 - 33 ohms temp or gas low to high.

There are also SW & Delco oil pressure gauges same resistance readings and interchangeable with above gauges just by swapping the faceplate.

Joe
 
I wrote "Use an ohm meter, sender terminal to ground". That wouldn't give you the resistance range, just the difference between Delco & SW sender coils.

In my notes sender terminal to gnd for SW 240 -33 ohm gauge is nominal 250 - 260 ohms. I don't know Delco resistance. I have no practical Delco gauge experience.

Joe
 
(quoted from post at 11:52:19 03/06/18) I wrote "Use an ohm meter, sender terminal to ground". That wouldn't give you the resistance range, just the difference between Delco & SW sender coils.

In my notes sender terminal to gnd for SW 240 -33 ohm gauge is nominal 250 - 260 ohms. I don't know Delco resistance. I have no practical Delco gauge experience.

Joe

I removed the cluster and disassembled it. I have an SW temp gauge coming so I think I have that part covered. In the 25 years I have owned the tractor I have never had cables going to the tach and speedo. I figured I just needed cables until I pulled them out. They are a disaster and badly corroded. I will try to take them apart but I don't have a lot of hope. Is there an option out there for a tachometer replacement?
 
They tend to seize up in the back bearing where the oiler is located, also the worm gears on the tach. Clamp a piece of hose on drive end for whatever penetrant you plan to use. Cover the tach counter, I use Suran wrap plus a tinfoil drip cover. PB Blaster works ok. Every now and then try rotating the shaft gently, things breaks easy.

Joe
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(quoted from post at 13:32:20 03/12/18)
I removed the cluster and disassembled it. I have an SW temp gauge coming so I think I have that part covered. In the 25 years I have owned the tractor I have never had cables going to the tach and speedo. I figured I just needed cables until I pulled them out. They are a disaster and badly corroded. I will try to take them apart but I don't have a lot of hope. Is there an option out there for a tachometer replacement?
I'm going through the same thing with my 611b. I found my tach drive toasted too, gear teeth worn off, and the square hole in the shaft isn't square anymore, it's closer to round. Oddly enough the cable itself seems OK although the speedo cable is MIA. But the tach drive is NLA, so any mechanical gauge setup is out of the question. However, John Saeli has just today notified me that he has a line on an electronic tach. I'll let you know when I have more particulars. BTW I have the same gauge panel Connor does and I'm hoping to use that.
 
Thanks for the help guys, I am pretty happy with the results so far. I used the fuel gauge face as a template for the temp gauge and then a rotary bit on the dremel to cut it out.

I do have a question. this cluster has clearly been apart and there is plexiglass in it. Am I correct to assume it should be glass? [/img]
 
I do have a question. this cluster has clearly been apart and there is plexiglass in it. Am I correct to assume it should be glass?

Yes it was originally glass. Take you Plexiglas to a glass shop for a target and they can cut a new glass cover.

Before you assemble everything, did you clean up the back of the pod real good in way of the copper ground on the movement. I've been tinning that area with lead solder last couple I changed out.

Also the terminals well insulated from the pod before you power up. Doesn't take many amps to blow those hair size wires on the coils like a fuse.

Joe
 
(quoted from post at 19:34:54 03/23/18) I do have a question. this cluster has clearly been apart and there is plexiglass in it. Am I correct to assume it should be glass?

Yes it was originally glass. Take you Plexiglas to a glass shop for a target and they can cut a new glass cover.

Before you assemble everything, did you clean up the back of the pod real good in way of the copper ground on the movement. I've been tinning that area with lead solder last couple I changed out.

Also the terminals well insulated from the pod before you power up. Doesn't take many amps to blow those hair size wires on the coils like a fuse.

Joe

I used the insulator bushings from the bracket on the gauge I took apart so that should work fine. I don't like the contact that the gauge ground is making so I might either make up a spacer or use a jumper wire.
 
Good shot. Grounding is the most neglected part of electrical systems, people will get the hot side troubleshot just fine and forget the return.
 
I have started soaking the speedo. Does the outer end turn or do I need to insert a square drive into the inside in order to turn it?
 
(quoted from post at 18:31:14 03/24/18) I have started soaking the speedo. Does the outer end turn or do I need to insert a square drive into the inside in order to turn it?

Yes the outer end (brass) turns. It is part of the square drive. Don't force it, breaks easily.

If you can't spin the outer end with your fingers the bearing spindle is seized in the bearing. If you spin it, the pointer should jump up, if pointer doesn't move, drive is broken.

Joe
 

I should be more clear. The cable drive end only turns a field that induces a magnetic flux to drag the spindle armature to move the pointer. They are not mechanically connected. Similar to a motor where the stationary field is energized to turn an armature shaft only here the cable drive is rotating a field that is magnetically dragging a rotating armature with a spindle to move the pointer.

With the cable end drive seized in the back bearing that you are trying to free up, the pointer should still freely move across the faceplate with your finger.

Clear as mud? I probably have an old movement in the shop that I can take pics if you need it.

Joe
 
(quoted from post at 12:52:27 03/24/18)
(quoted from post at 18:31:14 03/24/18) I have started soaking the speedo. Does the outer end turn or do I need to insert a square drive into the inside in order to turn it?

Yes the outer end (brass) turns. It is part of the square drive. Don't force it, breaks easily.

If you can't spin the outer end with your fingers the bearing spindle is seized in the bearing. If you spin it, the pointer should jump up, if pointer doesn't move, drive is broken.

Joe

Sadly the tach and speedo seem hopeless. The rest came out good.
 
(quoted from post at 16:58:15 03/26/18) just back from the glass shop. $65 for glass. I guess plexi it is for now.

Try another glass shop. Been about 10 years $15 apiece for 2 and they gave me one with a minor flaw. I could guess maybe $30 but not $65.

Joe
 
(quoted from post at 13:49:17 03/26/18)
(quoted from post at 16:58:15 03/26/18) just back from the glass shop. $65 for glass. I guess plexi it is for now.

Try another glass shop. Been about 10 years $15 apiece for 2 and they gave me one with a minor flaw. I could guess maybe $30 but not $65.

Joe

I am glad that I mentioned it. I went to another glass shop and they told me $10
 
I got my new glass and it is coming along nicely. Does anyone know a good replacement for the bulb holders?
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I use these universal push in sockets. You can find a size that fits the hole, generally at lower end auto supply stores like Autozone that have this kind of stuff on the display shelves.

Joe
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