I have, on my 140 W hay bailer a Case stationary engine which I think is a VAC engine. I started it today, first time in years. Took right off. Rapped out wide open. Couldn't do anything to cause it to idle down. The arm to the gov wouldn't move regardless of running or not. Any ideas?
- Thread starter Farmallb
- Start date
If it has been sitting a long time the gov rod that comes out of the side can rust up and stick and or the gov it self can be rusty form sitting a long time and stuck. Or I could also be the carb it self and the throttle butterfly has rusted in place so the gov cannot work. I would take the linkage off the carb and see which area is stuck AND THEN GO FROM THERE
I suspect the governor rod that goes down into the timing cover is rusted fast, saturate the the arm where it pivots in the timing cover and get it moving, this is more common in engines that have sat, there are needle bearings in the timing that rust up, Ideally they should be replaced but have loosened many up and ran oil down around the top of the pivot. Those bearings are not well lubricated from timing gear splash.
Why take apart the carb when you can move the throttle butter fly by hand. If it was me I would unhook the gov. to carb linkage and fire it up and move the throttle butterfly by hand and see if that works to speed up and slow down the engine and if it does then you have a gov. problem
If it is the vertical shaft coming up out of the governor housing it may be able to be freed up by applying penetrating oil and getting it to move to work lube down the shaft. I have seen running engines that the needles fell out of the vertical shaft bearings when the shaft was removed, I agree with old, run it with the governor rod disconnected and see if you can control speed by manually working the carb shaft. If that shaft is frozen as I suspect, i have never been not able to free it up but the needle bearings are in pitiful shape. This problem is more common that you would expect on engines that have been sitting, I have freed several up.
I found a set screw covered with dried oil in the middle of the housing the gov rod goes into. I sprayed a 1/2 can of Blaster in the hole, and let it set for 2 hrs. Then I started the H Farmall I got belted to it and let it idle, running the engine at slow speed, but not running on its own. I let it run like that for around 10 mins. I then put 1/2qt oil in it. Then I started it up. no change.
Does the arm that comes across the front of the engine move back and forth freely, if not it is rusted fast in its bearings, you must get that shaft free, Put penetrating oil where it comes out of the timing cover and use moderate force to get it to move back and forth. That governor is not rocket science, I have never seen the weights cause this issue so I do not believe it is an internal issue, If you say the arm that comes across the front of the engine does not move that is the area to concentrate on. I have been where you are several times with those engines and always it has been the upright shaft fast in its bearings.
I noticed yesterday that one outside port of the head, the manifold gasket is gone. Could it suck in enough air to create the condition I have.
I went over to my B Farmall and tried to move the governor rod with it not running. I couldn"t move it.
Course, I couldn"t move the gov rod on the bailer engine whether running or not.
I went over to my B Farmall and tried to move the governor rod with it not running. I couldn"t move it.
Course, I couldn"t move the gov rod on the bailer engine whether running or not.
Well if enough of the gasket is gone so as to have the intake sucking air in then yes that could well be at least part of the problem.
As for the gov to carb rod with the throttle set to idle you should be able to move the rod by hand. If the throttle is set to max the rod will be hard to move due to the gov springs etc.
As for the gov to carb rod with the throttle set to idle you should be able to move the rod by hand. If the throttle is set to max the rod will be hard to move due to the gov springs etc.
I have the T rod at idle. I cannot move the rod by hand, running or not. Whats your thoughts about my earlier posting about one outside port of the manifold has had the gasket blown away. Would that draw enough air to cause my problem with over running.
Course, even if it is a cause, that still don't explain why I cant move the gov rod.
Course, even if it is a cause, that still don't explain why I cant move the gov rod.
Just so I was 1000% sure I stepped out and tried to move the gov to carb rod on a VAC I have sitting close to the house. While it does have some resistance to it due to the spring I can move it pretty easy. I would take the gov to carb rod off and then try to push/pull the bar that goes into the top of the gov and see if you can move it.
As for the manifold if it can suck air into the engine because of that gasket being bad and it suck it into the intake yes that can/will make an engine run faster then it should
As for the manifold if it can suck air into the engine because of that gasket being bad and it suck it into the intake yes that can/will make an engine run faster then it should
There is 2 rods. One comes from the carb back to the corner. It is connected to a bent piece at the corner that BHAS A swivel at the top and is then where it attaches to the carb rod. The piece is above the gov rod where it hooks into the carb rod, and it drops down below the gov rod to where its hooked to a spring that hooks to the throttle lever.
The up and down piece, that is attached to the carb rod, and below where it is attached to a spring, moves forward and backwards in accordance to the govs movement.
WHAT IS THE DIA OF THE HOLE IN THE MANIFOLD. mECHANIC GAVE ME SOME CARDBOARD LIKE STUFF TO MAKE A GASKET OUT OF TO COVER THE ONE PORT WHERE IT HAS BLOWN OUT.
I s THE OUTSIDE PORTS INTAKE OR EXHUST. HE SAID IT WOULD LAST LONGER ON INTAKE, BUT ON A BAILER ENGINE, IT MIGHT LAST A LONG TIME REGARDLESS. I ONLHY HAVE 6 ACRES OF HAY TO BALE TWICE A YEAR.
The up and down piece, that is attached to the carb rod, and below where it is attached to a spring, moves forward and backwards in accordance to the govs movement.
WHAT IS THE DIA OF THE HOLE IN THE MANIFOLD. mECHANIC GAVE ME SOME CARDBOARD LIKE STUFF TO MAKE A GASKET OUT OF TO COVER THE ONE PORT WHERE IT HAS BLOWN OUT.
I s THE OUTSIDE PORTS INTAKE OR EXHUST. HE SAID IT WOULD LAST LONGER ON INTAKE, BUT ON A BAILER ENGINE, IT MIGHT LAST A LONG TIME REGARDLESS. I ONLHY HAVE 6 ACRES OF HAY TO BALE TWICE A YEAR.
That does not sound like a VAC engine set up for the carb to gov. On the VAC there is a single rod that goes from the carb to the gov arm. As for the gasket buy the correct exhaust/intake gasket and be done with it. If I remember right the outer 2 ports are exhaust and the inner 2 are exhaust
The carb is on the other side of the engine from the govenor. Its a small stationery engine. Did Case build stationery engines that were different from VAC engines?
Come to think of it. I have a 51 VAC here. Ill look at the differences tomorrow. This engine dosnt have a name plate on it, BUT It looks the size of a VAC.
Come to think of it. I have a 51 VAC here. Ill look at the differences tomorrow. This engine dosnt have a name plate on it, BUT It looks the size of a VAC.
With or with out he carb hooked up you should be able to push/pull on that lever that come out the top of the governor and it should move. If you cannot move it you need to pull the governor off and have a look see as to why you cannot move it and that is why you have problems with it not running like it should
Old, I agree that if that link across the front of the engine will not move it needs to be freed up, that is what I have been saying from the very beginning, I have never had one that the front had to be removed however, I have always been able to get them free by soaking the pivot with penetrating oil and forcing it back and forth with moderate effort until it moves freely then an occasional squirt of oil to the shaft usually keeps them freed up. A disassembly would find ruined and rusty needle bearings in the casting but they generally do not cause a problem once freed up. At this point getting it free is most important, I have never had one that would not free up but there is a first time for everything !!!
My self I have never seen one lock up like he says his is. The VAC I went out and double checked so I was sure what I was saying has been sitting for years when I got it and it was just fine and so are all the others ones I HAVE HAD including to 2 I have that where locked up I have 5 V series tractors 4 VAC and one VAI
PLEASE RESPOND to my question about
#1 The dia of the manifold port holes
#2 Whether the outside ports are exhust ports
#3 IF, one of the outside ports has lost its gasket, IF that would/could contribute to my problem of the engine racing?
I looked at my VAC. Although they almost use the same parts, where the flat stock piece that is hooked at each end by either the rod going to the carb, OR the other end going to the throttle, on THIS engine, the gov rod, welded to the middle of the flat piece runs sideways, and the flat piece runs up and down. The gov rod goes into the gov
housing sideways.
Thanks for all the help.
#1 The dia of the manifold port holes
#2 Whether the outside ports are exhust ports
#3 IF, one of the outside ports has lost its gasket, IF that would/could contribute to my problem of the engine racing?
I looked at my VAC. Although they almost use the same parts, where the flat stock piece that is hooked at each end by either the rod going to the carb, OR the other end going to the throttle, on THIS engine, the gov rod, welded to the middle of the flat piece runs sideways, and the flat piece runs up and down. The gov rod goes into the gov
housing sideways.
Thanks for all the help.
I do not know the diameter of the port holes.
As I have said before the 2 most outer I think are exhaust.
As for the gasket being gone if only on the exhaust no it would not cause that but if it has gone to the point it is into the intake yes that will cause it to run oddly
As I have said before the 2 most outer I think are exhaust.
As for the gasket being gone if only on the exhaust no it would not cause that but if it has gone to the point it is into the intake yes that will cause it to run oddly
BUT< IF it runs wide open, then I SHOULD be able to bale with it. BUT Long before that, if I havnt got it fixed by then, ill likely take the engine off and have it fixed proper If I can afford it.
That's one reason I cut and stacked a pile of dead grass near the bailer so as to
#1 See if it DOES tie well
#2 See how the engine does while actually bailing hay.
That's one reason I cut and stacked a pile of dead grass near the bailer so as to
#1 See if it DOES tie well
#2 See how the engine does while actually bailing hay.
Farmall, would it be possible for you to post pics on here for us all to look at , it would clear a lot of things up I believe. I have had several of the VAC governor shafts get tight where they go into the top of the timing cover, all were able to be freed up. As we have said multiple times, if the rod that goes to the governor will not move very freely back and forth an inch or two governor action will be defeated, you have to find out why that linkage id tight
No the blown gaskets on the exhaust will not cause it to race however leaky intake gaskets do create rough running problems at idle.
No the blown gaskets on the exhaust will not cause it to race however leaky intake gaskets do create rough running problems at idle.
Those were quite the balers, I handled to many of them bales.
If you could send pictures of the governor linkage and the cross bar on the front of the engine that we are discussing that would be good, what are you taking pics with, My Iphone s lens gets smudged very quickly and picture quality gets bad.
A second look at your pics made me believe that is the air cooled engine that case built, not a VAC, I have seen but never worked on one of those, maybe there are some differences that I am not aware of so get closeups of the carbside and front of the engine where the governor rod from the carb fastens. The duct work back the RH side is what caught my eye
Ive got ATF, and can do that, but I have to pour it in from the side, not the top. There is a hole in the side of the cases case, that has a set screw that once removed allows for pouring in oil/ect.
I am going to take pics of the engine, but its cloudy now and supposed to rain.
I am going to take pics of the engine, but its cloudy now and supposed to rain.
I put 400 pumps from my red thumb pump oil can into it of ATF. It moves around a 1/16th of an inch easily. It never was froze up. The VAC moves around a 1/4in. It might be froze up too by now. It sat years for I bought it, and Ive had it setting for around 4yrs.
Got a guy supposedly coming Tuesday IF it aint raining by then to check out why it dosnt tie.
Got a guy supposedly coming Tuesday IF it aint raining by then to check out why it dosnt tie.
If I am correct that plug is there to allow the use of a punch to remove the roll pin from the internal lever for removing the governor lever once the timing gear cover is off, pouring oil in there will put into the crankcase, it will not put oil where you need it. Old has it right, soak the top of the governor lever and try to work it free. I think that part of the confusion here is that we are talking about the engine as it would be mounted in a tractor and he is reffering to it as it is mounted on the baler. Farmall, the end of the engine that has the fan and generator would be reffered to as the front of the engine, the left hand side as seen from the tongue looking back and the other end that has the big belt pulley that drives the flywheel of the baler is the rear of the engine the right hand side. Get penetrating oil and soak that cross shaft where it goes down into the cover and worrk it loose!!!!
I realize that the end that runs the fan is the front, and the end that runs the pulley is the back.
The cross shaft, as you call it, sits SIDEWAYS. I cant get any oil DOWN the shaft.
I took some good pics yesterday, but the dang puter wont upload them. Gotta get my DD to help with that.
Mans coming out at ten to try to make it tie. Ill see how the engine handles hay then.
The cross shaft, as you call it, sits SIDEWAYS. I cant get any oil DOWN the shaft.
I took some good pics yesterday, but the dang puter wont upload them. Gotta get my DD to help with that.
Mans coming out at ten to try to make it tie. Ill see how the engine handles hay then.
I understand that the shaft is sideways as you look at it , it goes from the carb side across the front of the engine to the throttle and governor spring. IF THE SHAFT DOES NOT MOVE FREELY AS OLD SAID THE GOVERNOR CANNOT WORK, GET IT LOOSE AS HE SAID TILL IT MOVES FREELY A COUPLE INCHES ---FREELY, NO DRAG !!!! Even though it is not a VAC engine It seems to share a common governor design.
And whats the best way to shove ATF down a hole that is mostly plugged by a shaft, far enough that it does any good????????
I would have thought putting ATF in the hole with the set screw removed, mid way down the housing, would be far more effective than trying to shove it down past the front at the end of the housing with the shaft plugging that hole.
I would have thought putting ATF in the hole with the set screw removed, mid way down the housing, would be far more effective than trying to shove it down past the front at the end of the housing with the shaft plugging that hole.
And whats the best way to shove ATF down a hole that is mostly plugged by a shaft, far enough that it does any good????????
I would have thought putting ATF in the hole with the set screw removed, mid way down the housing, would be far more effective than trying to shove it down past the front at the end of the housing with the shaft plugging that hole.
By the way. A kid in his 30s came out to fix the tying mech. he left after an hour with it yet still not fixed.
I would have thought putting ATF in the hole with the set screw removed, mid way down the housing, would be far more effective than trying to shove it down past the front at the end of the housing with the shaft plugging that hole.
By the way. A kid in his 30s came out to fix the tying mech. he left after an hour with it yet still not fixed.
Putting the lube in there is not getting it where it needs to be, the needle bearings are a couple inches higher than that and a bit up in the casting, you are just filling the crankcase a lot slower than putting it in the top of the engine, if you are going to get that shaft loose you are going to HAVE to soak the area up on top where the shaft goes down into the timing cover, keep lubing it or better use PB Blaster and clamp some vice grips on it and keep working it back and forth till it starts to move, the lube will soak down by the shaft and get to the bearings, till you do that the baler will be useless because as the hay enters the chamber the governor will not respond and the engine will not have enough power to compress the bale. Once again, that 1/8th inch plug you are pumping oil into is put there so the roll pin in the governor lever can be removed AFTER the timing cover is on the bench
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy