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Wide front casting SC

F

fixerupper

Well-known Member
Do any of you Case guys know where I can find this big casting for an SC wide front? I'm out of aces. Been calling salvages, checking CL and eBay. It's the part that's broken and welded in the pic. The owner of this tractor is willing to spend some money on it. As I understand I could have a casting from a narrow front cut down and machined but I'm trying this route first. I did see a DC with wide front sitting in the weeds advertised for scrap price so if I could find a complete SC in the same condition I could go that way. I'm in Northwest Iowa. I wish I would have known about this during the Albert City show. I live four miles away from the show site!
a249348.jpg
 
One from a narrow front will work with a little work. Cut it off and have a machine shop bore the center out. Worked on mine 30 years ago.
 
did that tractor happen to sell at the Albert City Auction? Seems as if I saw one sell that looked very similar. gobble
 
(quoted from post at 17:52:27 12/04/17) did that tractor happen to sell at the Albert City Auction? Seems as if I saw one sell that looked very similar. gobble
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That’s the one. Purrs like a kitten and pops off first time over. Sweet tractor that needs a few odds and ends done like all old tractors do. This front end is the biggest job he wants me to do. There are a few drips here and there to be addressed but nothing major. The clutch linkage is very worn so will be doing some building up and bushing to get the clutch travel back to like new specs. When I fired it up today the genny squawked like a trapped chicken so some new bearings are headed that way. Should have the front end off early tomorrow morn, then the search continues.
 
(quoted from post at 09:59:56 12/04/17) Did you try Don at Rusty Acre? 507-433-0073 Near Austin, MN
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I have a "parts" wide front for an SC will check tomorrow to verify condition. These were a notoriously weak set up. The few I have seen were either broke or welded and heavily reinforced. I am out in Oregon . But we can figure out shipping if the one I have is OK.
Ralph @ 503 631 8888 I need 4 power cells for a 400.
 

I would braze the crack to repair it, after it was removed and cleaned up. You will have to grind the crack with a angle grinder. About 3/8" wide and around 3/8" deep. then fill it up with brass rod. Just make sure you have a large enough puddle to mix the brass into the cast iron. You can use 1/8" rod that is coated with flux, or buy larger rod and a can of flux. If you can not maintain a large puddle use a larger brazing tip on you torch. I've seen things like your SC bolster arc welded and break, then brazed and never give any more trouble.
 

I need to add a few things. Drill a 1/8" hole at the end of the crack, otherwise you'll be chasing it all the way around the casting. Plus, If you have never brazed or gas welded before you'll have to aim the flame down the crack, and add the brass to the puddle as you move down along the crack. Keep the tip of your rod close to the flame as you go. Just far enough, so it doesn't melt when you're not ready to add the brass to the puddle, but close enough to keep the end of the rod warm, so when you move it to the puddle it will melt right away and mix into you puddle. Make you move the flame in a circular motion as you go along. It mixes the two metals much better.
 
(quoted from post at 05:53:31 12/05/17) A few drops of oil in the drip cups may end the belt squeal and stiff bearings. The rear one is a bushing as I'm sure you know.
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I might just pull the genny apart as easy as it is to work on. When I fired it up yesterday it was in a cold machine shed and being cold makes it worse of course. It would squawk when my back was turned but as soon as I spun around to see where the noise was coming from it would quit. I'd stand there and stare at the genny but it wouldn't make a sound till I turned my back on it. When I finally was watching while it acted up the genny vibrated pretty good. Anyway , it's on the list.
 
(quoted from post at 06:09:38 12/05/17)
I would braze the crack to repair it, after it was removed and cleaned up. You will have to grind the crack with a angle grinder. About 3/8" wide and around 3/8" deep. then fill it up with brass rod. Just make sure you have a large enough puddle to mix the brass into the cast iron. You can use 1/8" rod that is coated with flux, or buy larger rod and a can of flux. If you can not maintain a large puddle use a larger brazing tip on you torch. I've seen things like your SC bolster arc welded and break, then brazed and never give any more trouble.
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I have done some brazing throughout the years but never enough to get proficient at it. By the way it sounds you are much better at it than I am. If it comes to having it brazed I will probably take it to someone who knows more about brazing something like this. Removing this casting is a piece of cake once the rad is off.
 
(quoted from post at 16:22:35 12/05/17)
(quoted from post at 06:09:38 12/05/17)
I would braze the crack to repair it, after it was removed and cleaned up. You will have to grind the crack with a angle grinder. About 3/8" wide and around 3/8" deep. then fill it up with brass rod. Just make sure you have a large enough puddle to mix the brass into the cast iron. You can use 1/8" rod that is coated with flux, or buy larger rod and a can of flux. If you can not maintain a large puddle use a larger brazing tip on you torch. I've seen things like your SC bolster arc welded and break, then brazed and never give any more trouble.
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I have done some brazing throughout the years but never enough to get proficient at it. By the way it sounds you are much better at it than I am. If it comes to having it brazed I will probably take it to someone who knows more about brazing something like this. Removing this casting is a piece of cake once the rad is off.
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If you take it somewhere they'll most likely want to arc weld it. Brazing repairers are getting few and far between. If you have done some brazing you will most likely know more about it than most welding shops. A lot of people think brazing is some sort of soldering process. It's not though. Brazing is a process in which two metals are melted and mixed together.

In my area a young man started up his own welding/fabricating shop. He bought a very large sheet metal brake, this was for bending thick sheets of steel for fabricating purposes. It was quite an old piece of equipment that used hydraulics to do the actual bending. It also had a welded repair done on a crucial part. It wasn't long before the weld broke, so he took it apart and prepared it for a better weld than was on it, so he thought. An older gentleman, with a lot more experience in this sort of thing suggested that he braze the parts together, because the bronze would take more shock than a weld would, being that the weld would be too brittle for that application. The shop owner just shook his head and welded it. Of course it broke again, then a second time after another weld. He made good welds using about 2lbs of rod. The weld was about 5" wide and about 3" deep, it was a big piece he was working with. Anyway, he gave up and had the older man braze it together. It was successfully brazed together and has been that way for several years.
 
We have all seen brazing done 50-75 or 100 years ago on old mowers etc that is still holding so it does work in the right hands. I just might give it a whirl. I have a hunch the owner does not want a repaired piece up there, rather a new looking piece and if that is the way he wants to go I will do it that way and keep the old brazed up piece. How much pre heating do you recommend?
 
I have three Sc's with wide front,, and had another one that lived its life with loader on it,, none have broken,, my DC also has a WF and has lived its life on a loader as well, betting it is more abuse than a design flaw
cnt
 
(quoted from post at 15:00:54 12/05/17) I have three Sc's with wide front,, and had another one that lived its life with loader on it,, none have broken,, my DC also has a WF and has lived its life on a loader as well, betting it is more abuse than a design flaw
cnt
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That makes me feel better about just brazing it and getting it over with. I have it apart and cleaned up and Veed out. Might braze it tomorrow but I have to check to make sure I have enough rods. I ground out quite a bit of material as it was a meandering crack. As soon as I figure out how to wring a picture out of the cell phone I will post a pic for the approval of the welding/brazing experts.
 
(quoted from post at 17:03:01 12/05/17)
(quoted from post at 15:00:54 12/05/17) I have three Sc's with wide front,, and had another one that lived its life with loader on it,, none have broken,, my DC also has a WF and has lived its life on a loader as well, betting it is more abuse than a design flaw
cnt
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That makes me feel better about just brazing it and getting it over with. I have it apart and cleaned up and Veed out. Might braze it tomorrow but I have to check to make sure I have enough rods. I ground out quite a bit of material as it was a meandering crack. As soon as I figure out how to wring a picture out of the cell phone I will post a pic for the approval of the welding/brazing experts.
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OK, here's a pic or two
7132.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 20:27:32 12/05/17) We have all seen brazing done 50-75 or 100 years ago on old mowers etc that is still holding so it does work in the right hands. I just might give it a whirl. I have a hunch the owner does not want a repaired piece up there, rather a new looking piece and if that is the way he wants to go I will do it that way and keep the old brazed up piece. How much pre heating do you recommend?
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If you file the repair, and sand it smooth before you paint it you will never know it was repaired. As for preheating I really don't have a definitive answer for you. You will have to warm up the crack a few inches at a time before you concentrate your flame to start your puddle. If you move the flame forward down the crack while you're adding in the brass, an inch or two of the area ahead of your puddle will preheat as you go along. Angling the flame forward a little will help preheat where you will be laying the brass. After you get a couple of inches brazed, you might have to warm up a few inches ahead, then go back to laying the brass. You'll just have to keep the flame moving all through the process. Be sure to wear eye protection while doing this. You might add the brass before you have a good puddle, and the beads of melted brass will explode. Spattering little bits of hot brass all over, including your face. So don't rush it. Brazing cast iron is getting to be a lost art. Anyone that wants to do their own repairs should learn how to braze. It may come in handy in the future.
 
(quoted from post at 17:10:01 12/05/17)
(quoted from post at 17:03:01 12/05/17)
(quoted from post at 15:00:54 12/05/17) I have three Sc's with wide front,, and had another one that lived its life with loader on it,, none have broken,, my DC also has a WF and has lived its life on a loader as well, betting it is more abuse than a design flaw
cnt
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That makes me feel better about just brazing it and getting it over with. I have it apart and cleaned up and Veed out. Might braze it tomorrow but I have to check to make sure I have enough rods. I ground out quite a bit of material as it was a meandering crack. As soon as I figure out how to wring a picture out of the cell phone I will post a pic for the approval of the welding/brazing experts.
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OK, here's a pic or two
7132.jpg
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7133.jpg



Here's the crack ground out. The depth doesn't show up in the picture but it's about 3/8" deep. The casting is 1/2" thick. The other fix is welding and is holding but it isn't Veed out very far, maybe 1/8". I got a little carried away and off course with the grinding.
 
(quoted from post at 09:59:56 12/04/17) Did you try Don at Rusty Acre? 507-433-0073 Near Austin, MN
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Checked both my parts front as well as the complete wide front SC in my collection. Both are broken . The parts one is not so bad as yours but is cracked from the side like yours to to center in the front and is welded. Probably not worth the freight to get it to you .
DC fronts are much heavier and probably don't fit but I have one.
 
If I was to repair this, after welding/ brazing I would grind the welds down to the original then make a ring of 3/8 or 1/2 steel with an ID to match the OD of the repaired casting to encircle as much the lower part of the casting as possible then weld that around. Then that would fix it for once and for all.
 
Thanks for taking the time to look Ralph. I could get hold of a complete DC with wide front for an advertised $400 but a DC is a different animal and besides I would have to travel 150 miles to get it.
 

You'll have to get the v-notch over the crack better than you have it. Are you sure the previous repair is a arc weld. Looks like a brazing job to me. Do remember to drill a 1/8" hole at the very end of the crack. Otherwise the crack will continue beyond where you will be heading it. Maybe you better get larger than 1/8" brazing rod and a can of flux. You have quite a large area to fill in. Keep us posted on your progress.
 
Ya, I ground it out pretty wide. Wasn't paying close enough attention to where the crack went. I did some grinding on the previous fix and it was silver colored instead of bronze. Here's a pic of the inside of the bore.
7170.jpg


The straight line crack is the previous crack the diagonal crack is the one I am working on. After looking at this picture the top of the diagonal crack goes along ways around the bore at the top. It doesn't show that much on the outside.
 

See if you can clean the grease out of the crack. Brake cleaner and a wire brush should help. The flux on the brazing rod should keep any left over grease out of the bronze.
 
I have a cast front wheel of a model "S" tractor that had been broken many years ago and they had it brazed,, MAN the guy who did it was a artist for sure at brazing,, if I can get to it and get a pic I will it shows how it can be done,, I can braze but nothing like this job was done,, like you say its becoming a lost art today
cnt
 

One more thing to add. If you do decide to file the bronze to smooth it out before painting, you should chalk your file before you use the file. Chalking a file involves working chalk into the grooves of the file. It keeps the bronze material from packing into the bottom of the grooves making it impossible to clean the file with a file card. Don't fill the grooves completely with chalk, just file the piece of chalk you use lightly so the bottom of the grooves have some chalk in it. Clean the file often, and apply more chalk as you're filing your repair. Just a little something I learned in the course of watch repair.
 
(quoted from post at 21:53:00 12/06/17) Here's the brazing job. Craters of the moon.
7207.jpg
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Looks like you need a little less heat and more brass. It also looks like you didn't keep the flame moving in a circular motion. You can grind out the bad spots and try it again. Other then a few thing I mentioned you did a pretty good job. Just don't be afraid of using lots of brass rod while brazing.
 
Thanks so much for the advise. This is my first rodeo with heavy casting. I was not circling much. Now that you mention it, circling is important. The memory needed to be jogged a bit. LOL Here is the final finish.
7215.jpg


I ground it down feathered the edges and hit it with the needle scaler. With a coat of paint it might fool a few people if they don't look too close.
 

It looks a lot better after you cleaned it up. Be sure to post a picture of it after you paint it and put it back together. Was the owner alright with the repair you did, or does he still want a replacement? I think your repair will hold up alright. If the part cracks it will be in a different spot.
 
The picture doesn’t show it but I did leave it slightly raised. I haven’t talked to the owner. I’ll show him the casting after a paint job and let him decide what to do. Finding a good unbroken casting that someone wants to let go of will be very hard to do. I have a hunch an unbroken casting will have small cracks starting unless it’s a NOS part. The casting is only 1/2” thick in the area that tends to crack.
 
One coat of epoxy primer and one coat of
power red. Couldn't readily find flambeu in
a good quality paint. Will have to wait for
it to dry to see if there is a difference.
a249614.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 22:35:33 12/07/17) One coat of epoxy primer and one coat of
power red. Couldn't readily find flambeu in
a good quality paint. Will have to wait for
it to dry to see if there is a difference.
a249614.jpg
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A coat of paint will cover a multitude of sins.
The only way to tell there was a repair made on the bolster, is that the repaired portion is smoother than the rest of the casting. Now you can add this to your résumé of skills.
 
It's put together now. The heating shrank it a bit. I had to use a sanding wheel to ream it to get the bolster to come down on the front end without pounding on it. I figured putting it together extra tight is inviting another crack to start. Thanks so much for the encouragement and advice. Next time I will use less heat, more rod and do the swirling. There's nothing as good experience.
 
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