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Case o matic no direct drive help 611b

J

jbshocks

Member
I have been working on a 611b and finally have the motor working perfectly. The case o matic lever has always been hard to move in the 20 years we have had it and I didn't know how it was supposed to work so I don't know if it ever worked. Lever now moves freely and all linkage is hooked up. New filter and fresh tch. Com mode works fine. If I put it in direct drive pushing clutch does not return lever to com. Engaging the lever does not lock up the converter. Any thoughts? I plan to attemept some pressure readings but the convertor tap ,if I have the right one is right under the steering shaft and I will need to remove that. Any ideas what I should be looking for?
 

I will leave it to the experts to discuss why it won't lock up (pump?), but as far as stepping on the clutch and it not going back into COM, there is a tab that sticks out off the clutch rod down at the COM housing that has to be there to push the linkage out of direct and back into COM. Without that you have to manually move the COM lever to get out of direct. Not sure if that 's the problem, but it's a place to start.
 

If you have a pressure drop on the gage and no direct drive when engaged and the spool is traveling fully your bushing to shaft clearance is loose allowing DD pressure to escape, it will be a complete removal to repair and there were mods adding a hook type sealing ring to help seal DD pressure. Have successfully built up the bearing surface on the little pto driveshaft and turned back to restore bearing area then added the new type seal.
 
I hooked a pressure gage up and I have 107 psi. If I press the clutch the pressure drops to 34. If I move the direct drive lever it dips for half a second to about 90 and returns to 107. Any more Thoughts?
 
I got lucky when I bought my 611B, it came with the manuals.
1896.jpg
1897.jpg
1898.jpg
 

The pressure is a bit low but not enough for total failure of DD clutch, since your pressure is holding I would suspect that the internal teeth may have failed on DD friction plate. If so a simple BH split and removal of the front of the converter face will let you gain access to it. If the rear bushing had failed the extra clearance would have allowed DD pressure to escape(the common problem). The pressure dipping and then returning is good news. The 35 lb reading showing on the gage is Torque converter pressure which is a good reading also.
 
(reply to post at 11j:38:58 08/13/17)
Click to expand...
I am not looking forward to a "simple" tractor split. I don't use the tractor much, mostly to brush hog my trails and snowblower the driveway. Would the tractor survive without direct drive or am I likely to cause damage if I keep using it this way?
 


It is not likely to cause any problems, the disc is fiberous so If I am correct some material could work back to sump. I would be sure to service the filter out in front of the radiator to keep any debris out of the valve and change the TC oil occasionally.
 
(quoted from post at 19:59:26 08/13/17)

It is not likely to cause any problems, the disc is fiberous so If I am correct some material could work back to sump. I would be sure to service the filter out in front of the radiator to keep any debris out of the valve and change the TC oil occasionally.
Click to expand...

So if I decide to split it am I just changing one friction plate? Any preventive items that should be addressed or should the entire com be rebuilt?
 
. If the pressure stays up with hot oil I would probably just go in And fix the dd issue,maintaining pressure hot would indicate good sealing rings and bushing clearances, the fact that dd holds system pressure indicates the piston seals are good, if Those things check out with hot oil I would be comfortable just taking the front off the converter and replacing the disc, the pressure readings you gave and the pressure dip and returning to normal checks out the hydraulic portion that is why I suspect the internal teeth on the fiber dd disc, now watch it make a fool out of me. I would check with John Saeli on this forum as he stocks some hard to get stuff.
 
can you remove the front of the converter with it in the split tractor or do you need to pull the converter? If it has to be pulled do you really need to fabricate that lifting tool shown in the book or can a couple of guys pull it out and put it in by hand?
 

The DD plate is the only thing that is able to be replaced without removal, you are in luck there, just a series of 5/16 capscrews hold the front cover of the converter on and the plate is right there.
 
(quoted from post at 05:39:22 08/21/17)
The DD plate is the only thing that is able to be replaced without removal, you are in luck there, just a series of 5/16 capscrews hold the front cover of the converter on and the plate is right there.
Click to expand...
Thanks for all your help. I will post back if I decide to dig in.
 
(quoted from post at 11:46:37 08/13/17) I have been working on a 611b and finally have the motor working perfectly. The case o matic lever has always been hard to move in the 20 years we have had it and I didn't know how it was supposed to work so I don't know if it ever worked. Lever now moves freely and all linkage is hooked up. New filter and fresh tch. Com mode works fine. If I put it in direct drive pushing clutch does not return lever to com. Engaging the lever does not lock up the converter. Any thoughts? I plan to attemept some pressure readings but the convertor tap ,if I have the right one is right under the steering shaft and I will need to remove that. Any ideas what I should be looking for?
Click to expand...

I had a 611b that wouldn't lock up in direct and it turned out to be the clutch disk that is inside the torgue converter. It has splines machined into the clutch lining and the splines were all worn off preventing the clutch disk from locking up the torque converter. I don't think you can buy a new disk. I am a machinist and made my own. then it worked fine.
 
(quoted from post at 15:27:40 08/21/17)
(quoted from post at 11:46:37 08/13/17) I have been working on a 611b and finally have the motor working perfectly. The case o matic lever has always been hard to move in the 20 years we have had it and I didn't know how it was supposed to work so I don't know if it ever worked. Lever now moves freely and all linkage is hooked up. New filter and fresh tch. Com mode works fine. If I put it in direct drive pushing clutch does not return lever to com. Engaging the lever does not lock up the converter. Any thoughts? I plan to attemept some pressure readings but the convertor tap ,if I have the right one is right under the steering shaft and I will need to remove that. Any ideas what I should be looking for?
Click to expand...

I had a 611b that wouldn't lock up in direct and it turned out to be the clutch disk that is inside the torgue converter. It has splines machined into the clutch lining and the splines were all worn off preventing the clutch disk from locking up the torque converter. I don't think you can buy a new disk. I am a machinist and made my own. then it worked fine.
Click to expand...

You ended up making the fiber disk or was it a metal one? Is this link the dirc you made? http://external_link.com/product/case-400b-530-630-tractor-case-o-matic-direct-drive-plate/
 
I made the fiber clutch plate. I bought the material the proper thickness and then machined the od and id to size and cut the splines on the inside. I was told by the case dealer that the clutch plate was no longer available but maybe they just didn't know what they were talking about.
 
(quoted from post at 05:54:39 08/22/17) John Saeli told me that he is the only one in the world who can put together a COM rebuild kit. I believe him.
Click to expand...
He is also the only one in the world with a 164 head gasket.
 
(quoted from post at 18:41:23 08/21/17) I made the fiber clutch plate. I bought the material the proper thickness and then machined the od and id to size and cut the splines on the inside. I was told by the case dealer that the clutch plate was no longer available but maybe they just didn't know what they were talking about.
Click to expand...

John

What symptoms did you have? Slight pressure blip when you engaged direct drive and then it still worked as COM only? No noise or anything? Any idea how you stripped the splines?
 
(quoted from post at 19:34:42 08/22/17)
(quoted from post at 18:41:23 08/21/17) I made the fiber clutch plate. I bought the material the proper thickness and then machined the od and id to size and cut the splines on the inside. I was told by the case dealer that the clutch plate was no longer available but maybe they just didn't know what they were talking about.
Click to expand...

John

What symptoms did you have? Slight pressure blip when you engaged direct drive and then it still worked as COM only? No noise or anything? Any idea how you stripped the splines?
Click to expand...

I bought the tractor this way. Pulling down the lever for direct made no difference at all. No noise it just always drove with fluid drive.
 
I'm assuming what strips the spline is when
you lock it up in direct before the torque
converter gets the tractor moving. The
splines are just made into the clutch
material and I am surprised they hold up at
all.
 
They seemed to hold up well for the people who understood what they were and how the worked and operated them accordingly.
 
Keep in mind, also: these machines are approaching 60 years old. Mine, at least, has not had the best of professional care. Amazing that they are still working.
 
(quoted from post at 19:03:55 08/22/17) Keep in mind, also: these machines are approaching 60 years old. Mine, at least, has not had the best of professional care. Amazing that they are still working.
Click to expand...
With mine having the tab that kicks it out of direct drive missing it makes sense that it could have stripped the plate that way.
 
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