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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

lost ID and road gear

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a case 4 kate

05-18-2017 12:50:24




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New to the forum and need advice. Thanks in advance. Case tractor acquired in 1977 used, NO SERIAL # was told it was a 1959 511b industrial. Have since learned 511b is ag. It could be a '58 or '59 510b with a 31 loader or maybe a '60 530? I don't know if this really matters. Tractor is 4cyl gas 4-gears low, 4 gears high, has a shuttle shift. In 4th gear high (8th gear) I cannot make the smallest hill going down the road and cannot get speed over about 10mph even going downhill. Cannot get rpms up. Used to go down the road good at around 20-22mph. Now, I see some smoke, acts like running rich, has even coughed / chugged and stopped. Starts right up again. Starts and runs good in ALL other circumstances. Have had carb and gov. checked by 2 independent, qualified mechs and told both are ok. Problem started around the time I had dist. replaced with electronic ig. Could this be cause? Also, have always run trans / hyd fluid in transmission - is this ok? Please help if you can.

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a case 4 kate

05-23-2017 14:04:55




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  

As I promised - here is my follow up

dhilbert - you were spot on! Checked rear end and it was VERY full. This would seem to be the source of the problem. Were you able to fix yours? Thanks.

Joe (Wa) Nice looking 500B and you are right -the dash cowling is very different than the one on mine.
CaseNutty1660 - thanks for your "ok" on trans-hyd fluid for the torque tube and the tran / rear end. That was a comfort.
mEl - agree on the location of oil flt and my tractor has no access covers on the tank top. Any guess as to what year mine is? Was 1960 the 1st year of mfg for the 530?

J Garner - it took me awhile to figure out that EH = Eagle Hitch. I plan to drain excess fluid to proper level, make sure the torque tube is correct level, then run it and see if:

1. I can get my road speed back, and

2. if the eagle hitch works as it should, and

3. see how long it takes for the oil to move to the back again.

Hopefully, this will help me know if I have a main shaft seal, or O ring or seal issue with the EH right?
Again - thanks - you guys are really smart! Lastly - does anyone feel they could say what year my tractor is? I'd really like to get a manual.

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mEl

05-22-2017 15:14:58




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
Yes Joe, that is precisely what happened, follow up pics clearly show 530, thanks for clearing that up. Mel



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a case 4 kate

05-20-2017 14:58:17




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  


Actually, I do have more pics., but hopefully someone can figure out what my tractor model is from these. Thanks to everyone for all of the suggestions. I will get to work on them on Monday and promise to post when the going-down-the-road problem is solved.



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a case 4 kate

05-20-2017 14:52:41




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  


I couldn't figure how to get these all on one post, so thanks for bearing with me.. note - eagle hitch comes stright off the back axle.



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a case 4 kate

05-20-2017 14:48:50




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
Controls - note hand throttle lever next to dash



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Case Nutty 1660

05-21-2017 06:22:25




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-20-2017 14:48:50  
Early 530 with dry clutch/shuttle shift just like I said below. the throttle is not factory though
cnt



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a case 4 kate

05-20-2017 14:44:15




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
This photo shows what is left of the number decal and has me coming back to the 530 idea with a 31 loader.



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a case 4 kate

05-20-2017 14:19:48




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  

OK - this is a possibility. Help me follow this through. As I'm sitting on the tractor, directly under my seat is where I think the transmission fluid is filled and I've been using trans-hydraulic. Under where my gear shift lever is is where I think the fluid goes for my eagle 3-pt and remote cyl. I have also used trans-hydraulic fluid here. Once in awhile, the eagle hitch lifts slow or not at all. I check and it is low, so I've been adding some fluid and all is happy again. Are you saying the fluid is sneaking through from one reservoir to the other leaving my eagle hitch low (and not lifting well, and overfilling my tranny reservoir causing the power loss in road gear and... I might fix this problem by putting in a new seal?

Another pic re is this a 530?

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Joe (Wa)

05-20-2017 13:18:03




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Are you looking at the wrong pic mEL? The pic I posted is 510B with the 00B block by-pass filter. Can't see the oil filter on case 4 kate's pic above or are there more pics I am missing?

Joe



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mEl

05-20-2017 11:28:19




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
The partial flow oil filter behind the distributor identifies it as the old style block as used in the oo series. the 530 had full flow and the base was located low on the right hand side. I have an old 530 EH and the fuel tank is not covered and it has a chrome cap that is up about an inch, no top covers on hood, my 530 has panels below the tank rib that tie into the dash and hood, my opinion, 500B

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mEl

05-19-2017 18:46:27




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
Not to lock horns with John and others who share his opinion but 75% of pullers use Pertronix and I have never seen one not go down the track from ignition failure.
There are very specific instructions given that are specific to 4 cylinder installations, the need for a ballast resistor being vitally important for reasons of module heating from long dwell times.
The wire issue is another, resistor wire protects the coil and other ignition components from damage due to the increase in spark, a Pertronix will throw a inch or better spark with resistance wire, it will knock the socks off most mags. Copper wire is excellent in its place but modern ignitions work fine with good resistance wire. I recommend the new spiral core high performance wire by MSD, it is 8MM which does give some problems with small nipple distributor caps
Another issue with solid copper wire is the sporadic emissions from the wires that interfere with the operation of the digital timing lights we use to set the advance, I know that a lot of people just crank the mag/distributor around and say "sounds good to me" but when tuning for max on the strip you learn a lot from a dyno and a timing light and I can tell you that the 30 degree lag angle on mags if set to impulse at DC on the flywheel are leaving a lot of horsepower on the table.
One thing to remember, a Pertronix will not work with ratty under size wire in the starting and ignition feed circuit, good cranking voltage and low voltage drop is essential for starting, my good friend Jim Garner will attest to that, he removed the module and went back to points, after talking to him he updated his wiring and battery cables and reinstalled the electronic module and never looked back, starts instantly every time.
In John's defense however, I can see the problem of retailing the units to people who add the units to tractors with subpar wiring and some with less technical skills than required.
I have many engines running the pulling tracks here with no durability problems and can vouch for the ruggedness and quality of the units and also the rare occasion where a module was not placed properly on the plate, they (Pertronix)were eager and most cooperative at rectifying the problem with no re occourance of the problem.
In a side note, the newest Pertronix units are designed to handle low ohm primary windings leaving a lot more coil flexibility for the performance minded. the later modules carry a 9 added to the front of the old PN ex the 1142 becomes 91142 in the Ignitor 2 series.

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JGarner

05-22-2017 10:38:28




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to mEl, 05-19-2017 18:46:27  
Mel is absolutely right on this. When I first put the Pertronix unit in it worked and worked well. After a couple of years it ceased "working" and as a trouble shoot I put the breaker points system back in and the tractor would start and run well. I really wanted the electronic ignition to work for a number of reasons, among them, no points to set, burn or corrode. So I put Pertronix system back in and start trying to determine why it didn't work as well as it should have. Long story short I was loosing enough voltage to the starter that even with the Pertronix Hot coil I wasn't feeding it enough voltage to fire.I even replaced the starter switch, which John can attest to as it came from him. Since the battery had come with the tractor when I bought it and it wasn't holding a charge long I decided to replace it and the battery cables with new. (I think the ground cable had been damaged) Low and behold the tractor started right up and as Mel said hasn't looked back. The key to electronic ignition is good cables, proper size to over sized wires in the ignition wiring harness and a good battery. The points system is more forgiving since there is a capacitor (the condenser) in the system. The capacitor sort of amplifies, if you will, the voltage and compensates for a weaker battery, questionable cables and substandard ignition wiring and provides a suitable spark to start and run the tractor.

I like the Pertronix system for the above reasons but a breaker point ignition is a proven system that had been used sucessfully for many many years in internal combustion engines so to each his own, both systems have their merits and shortcomings. I also run solid copper wires from John and the plugs he recommends. As a life long Champion plug user I now believe these may be made in China and are very poor and a big reason for starting and running problems. I will never use Champion plugs again.

Also as for Hyd fluid leaking into the differential another leak point is the EH system cylinder in the differential housing. This is one of the most common causes for the older Case tractors getting overfilled back there and/or the EH lift arms not lifting properly or holding in the up position.

Jim

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dhilbert

05-19-2017 17:37:54




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
I have a 511B and had the same symptoms you describe. No power, smoking, coughing and quitting. checked distributor, changed plugs, cleaned carb, turns out my rear end was way overfull, hydraulic fluid was low. There is a seal between torque tube and rear end, on the PTO shaft. all my hydraulic was leaking into the rear end. The rear end was so full I didn't have enough power to circulate all that oil in the rear end. Fixed the seal and all is well. Hope this helps, just another possibility. Good luck.

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a case 4 kate

05-18-2017 18:35:59




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
The photo I attached didn't come through, so I'm trying again. I don't have an owner's manual and I'm unsure of the exact tractor model. I'm pretty sure it's a 31 loader and either a 510b or a 530. Somewhere around '58 - '59 - '60. Maybe this picture will help someone figure it out for me. I'm not an expert and only have limited mechanical skills, but I'm wondering if it was a timing issue or the order of spark plugs firing, wouldn't I have problems other than just in road gear? I've been able to mow and move snow with plenty of power and no issues. It just seems to be a problem in road gear.

Would a crack in the manifold only effect road gear?
And does anyone have any thoughts with regards to using trans-hydraulic fluid in the transmission and torque tube?

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Case Nutty 1660

05-20-2017 05:56:23




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 18:35:59  
that is a 530CK not a 500B, a 500B does not have that style of fuel tank, yes hy-tran will work fine in the torque tube and transmission /rear end, cnt



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Joe (Wa)

05-19-2017 20:22:12




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 18:35:59  

The rear rims are bolt on making it an industrial not an Ag tractor if it is 500B series it would be a 510B. The exhaust on the 500B series I've seen is on the left side outside the sheet metal. Pic is a 510B, note the exhaust and how the dash cowling is oriented on the back of the sheet metal, doesn't match, does it? You need to post more pics from different angles and closer. My money right now is on early 430 or 530.

Joe

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John Saeli

05-19-2017 09:02:57




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 18:35:59  
I have had very poor results w/ the electronic ignitions, & will not sell them anymore. They were a constant source of headache. Check your spark plugs, Autolite 3116 are the only plug I recommend for your application. Real copper core spark plug wires should also be a "must", but seems to me that the electronic ignition says otherwise. Problem is that the other wires draw moisture & will not conduct spark as they should. Seems as though that would harm the electronic ign.
As for lubes, Hy-tran is the correct fluid for the Torque Tube. 85W-140 for the 4 sped gearbox & differential.

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dc in illinos

05-18-2017 15:10:14




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to a case 4 kate, 05-18-2017 12:50:24  
I would check the tractor timing and fireing order as that was the last thing changed before problems when they put back in the distributor the gear could one Tooth to as far as180 degrees off and it will run like it has no power but you hopefully have a manual so you can see how to check the timing marks and the rotor for the distributor is at the number one firing position when the timing is right.i would also check plug wires and plugs

Good luck Bob

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Chuck machinist

05-18-2017 18:20:48




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 Re: lost ID and road gear in reply to dc in illinos, 05-18-2017 15:10:14  
Check and make sure you don't have an intake or exhaust manifold leak you can do that with some soapy water and a squirt bottle. When you squirt the intake manifold and get a change in the RPM, that indicates you may have a crack in the intake manifold CM



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