TDC flywheel and crank cam and governor Help case SC 52

Just a question on a case SC 1952 when the #1 and #4 are at TDC the drill mark is in the sight hole should the camshaft crankshaft and governor timing marks be aligned. I'm thinking there just timed for the proper opening and closing of the valves and have nothing to do with it, so them not being aligned is not an issue. I thought Id ask and get a second opinion from an expert.
Thanks Byron

Well I must be wrong about this because I have seen a post saying that when drill mark is in the sight window the governor double marks should line up with the single mark on the camshaft Is it possible I have the cam 180 degrees out if so how do I correct it. Should I Pull it out and turn it 180 so all the marks line up I cant afford to screw this up just guessing. Any help would be appreciated
Thanks Byron

Sorry let me add there's no rocker arms or pushrods in the engine and all the covers are off right now.
Thanks Byron

OK maybe I'm over thinking this is it possible the crankshaft is 180 out does that make more sense. I have 2 manuals but I cant seem to find anything on it. It just says line up the timing marks and I have done that per the manual but when I do that you cant see the TDC mark in the sight hole. Its not even close.
Thanks Byron

Ok guys Thanks anyway for looking.
Byron

I think you need to turn the cam 180 degrees. If you removed the cam I would say you have it out of time , if you didn't remove it then I would turn the engine over a couple revolutions to see if i could make it line up. If not I would turn the cam shaft. If the flywheel is used for timing , then it should only fit the crank one way so that should be right. I hope this helps. My books show a couple really good pictures of the front of the engine with timing cover off and it shows the marks lining up. jstpa

If you have the cam and crank out of time, you have no choice but to remove one or the other and then get them in time, otherwise your valves will not be opening and closing a the correct times.. In order to pull the cam, you will have to pull the oil pump down (I'm 99% sure). I believe the single punch on the crank gear lines up with the double punch on the cam gear. Then the single punch on the cam gear lines up with the double punch on the governor. Pay no attention to the orientation of the flywheel punch mark at this time - this will come after you have the crank/cm/governor in time. The flywheel punch mark corresponds with where #1 is at TDC, and your mag should trip as that passes the hole in the bell housing.

If this was a running engine and the marks are right turning the crank 180 will accomplish nothing, the marks will just come into mesh on the next half turn, in my opinion if the marks on the gears are in mesh then to check properly you should look at lobe position at TDC. Ignition timing is another matter, that can be 180 degrees out. AT TDC the intake and exhaust lifters are either on the base circle (closed) or on (overlap) bothe lifters up a little and seen rocking as the engine is turned clockwise or counterclockwise. IMHO If it was running before it is OK even if the dots on the gears are not in mesh at TDC if they mesh properly at the shafts centerlines then put it together. Verify TDC on compression before installing dist.

Thanks guys for all the responses sorry for not clarifiing before but just a little background the tractor was split and all parts on the engine removed cam crank pistons sleeves flywheel I am in the process of putting it back together. Crankshaft camshaft and governor are installed and line with all the marks per the service Manual. Flywheel is installed. All covers are removed push rods are out rocker arms are out no distributor installed. Yes your right The flywheel is indexed by 6 bolts and can only go on one way I thought about that after posting the question yesterday and fooled with it till 1AM. You are right mEI When the flywheel drill mark is in the window #1 @ top dead center on compression stroke no matter how many times I rotate the crank it never lands in line with the timing marks. It ( the crank gear timing mark) never lands even in the direction of the other two gears when at TDC. The pistons are Installed. The rod caps are on the camshaft side and the rod cap numbers are pointing away from the cam. So I am thinking maybe you all are right Jstpa Ken mEL one has nothing to do with the other. I hope to get a consensus on the one has nothing to do with the other thought. I think I let a previous post in archives influence my thought process and should have just followed the manual. mEL IMHO ( In my humble opinion?) never seen that before.


Let me just take a moment to Apologize to all the members here because in asking for an expert Opinion I may have given the impression that I don't value and welcome ALL member comments and Opinions. There's nothing farther from the truth I will never make that mistake again. I have been working this tractor for a second season now I have bought parts little by little and have enjoyed the benefit's of all the comments on it. Most may not remember this is the same tractor that had a crack in the block between the #1 & #2 and a crack between the #3 & #4 cylinders. On a good note I'm excided to be putting it back together finally. The head is on new valves new guides new seats new rings new bearing rod and main and today looks like I will put the rocker and pushrods in and evaluate it from there from there.
Thanks again for the comments Byron

Got the push rods and rockers in and this is what I came up with
TDC #1 both valves closed #4 both valves tight rocking the cam back and forth there is a over lap one direction the exhaust valve opens the other the intake opens when turned clockwise the exhaust is closing the intake is opening This is # 4 I'm talking about. Thanks Byron

I bought a Case SC from a guy that had rebuilt it and it had no compression. The camshaft was 180 degrees off. Can't really tell much if the valves aren't installed and working. When we got the tractor we had no suction when placing your hand over the carb. air intake.

Were the timing marks lined up right? If it was 180 out the timing marks on the cam were reversed no?I do have the valves installed now Plenty of compression and suction at the spark plug hole. The manifold is not on yet but if I have suction there do you think its good to go.
Thanks Byron

As mEl says a bit lower down, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the cam gear to be 180? out of time with the mark on the crankshaft gear.

All that would mean is that if the crankshaft were to be turned one turn, the marks would then line up, which s perfectly NORMAL!

(quoted from post at 06:58:20 10/22/16) As mEl says a bit lower down, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the cam gear to be 180? out of time with the mark on the crankshaft gear.

All that would mean is that if the crankshaft were to be turned one turn, the marks would then line up, which s perfectly NORMAL!

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Ok Thanks Bob the marks do line up correctly per the service manual.