41 DC project

Cameano

Member
As promised in the other thread, I'm starting a new thread for the restoration of Dad's old '41 DC. I brought it home yesterday, finally. I removed the loader from it and took it to the scrapper, as it had seen it's day, and had quite a few repairs done to it over the years. I had no use for it, and would rather not hear from my wife about it taking up real estate in my yard. Got a whole $19 for it, scrapper is paying $50/ton for steel right now.

First thing I did was remove the front wheels, as they are downright wrong for the single wheel front end. The ends of the fork are tweaked out slightly, but I feel I can straighten them without much issue, since the fork appears to be forged steel. The fork has two holes on either side, and I can run a piece of allthread through the upper holes no problem. The lower holes, coming in from the right side I can thread into the left hole, but from the left, it doesn't go into the right hole, so the left side of the fork needs a slight tweak, along with the lower part where the axle goes through. I've reshaped old steering arms for drag links before with a torch, and as long as you let them cool without quenching them, they don't lose any strength. By all means, someone correct me if I'm wrong here, I don't cut corners when it comes to safety. As it stands, I'm still searching for a single wheel and axle, or even a narrow front end for now. Not much luck with either so far.

I noticed that this tractor does not have an oil filter installed. Looking at pictures, I see it should go over the starter. Did the '41 even have one? I see in pictures of later models, it appears to feed back into the block oil galley underneath the magneto, but my block doesn't have any plugs there. The oil pressure gauge line has been brazed shut too, but I have new gauges, and will take care of that when it goes back together. I did purchase an oil filter housing on Ebay, whether or not I can actually use it, or need to, we'll see. I'd like to plumb it up if I can, even if it's not 100% filtering, i.e. tap off the pressure gauge feed, and feed back into the engine with a restrictor fitting, at least it would filter some oil.

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Also, I'm pretty sure that magneto mount probably has some broken bolts in the bottom.

Next question, what does this lever do? I have a reprint of the service manual, and it does not show this lever in it.

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This is where it goes, up on top of the shifter plate in front of the steering gear.

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The oil pan is leaking pretty good at both the front and rear block joints, so I'll probably split the tractor and go through everything with new gaskets. The head gasket is questionable on the right side too, I've got some oil on the block in the middle, so a project it is.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get deeper into it. I appreciate any comments and tips to help with this project.

Thanks,

Darren
 
the lever should be the PTO lever, I am sure you are along way from Wyoming I have several of the tri-fronts here,, shipping would be a killer from me,, sounds like you are going to have a great time on this project,, and do not worry, there are plenty of parts around for the tractor
cnt
 
No oil filter in '41. Not sure what year they started. We had a
'41 for probably thirty years. Nice, economical tractor to
operate.

Glenn F.
 

I think you will have little chance of finding a wheel hub and axle in Arizona you might better bite the bullet on the shipping. That hub and axle is very heavy Id say close to 100 pounds without the tire.
Byron
 
Thanks for the replies, guys. Interesting about that lever, as every picture I can find of the controls does not show it, I guess they changed it in later years? As far as the oil filter, like I said, I may still try to add one, and just run it back through a restrictor fitting so at least there is some filtering going on. The engine runs fine, I just have to figure out what it likes as far as throttle and magneto settings, as this one has the original Case magneto with the lever by the seat. Get it wrong and it stalls and/or pops. Get it right, seems to run real good, as long as the high speed needle is tuned right.

Some further looking around and I can see that the mechanical lift linkage is long gone, but since I am going back to stock, as delivered looks, and I'm removing all the hydraulics, I'll have to locate one. The 3pt hitch hydraulics are all in great shape, I'm probably going to sell the stuff off to fund some parts for the project.

Case Nutty, if it comes down to it, I wouldn't be bothered to drive up your way for a front end if you'll part with one. I drive out of Las Vegas for work sometimes, Colorado, New Mexico, Idaho, Oregon, California, Utah, all reasonable within a day's drive. That'll be a month or two, I'd like to get the engine gone through first, fix up the oil leaks and inspect everything.
 
I was able to tweak the left fork with the bar enough that my piece of allthread slid right in from either side, so I secured the fork with nuts and washers. Then I heated up the forks just above the axle mount holes and tweaked them back parallel with themselves and the ground. I used my oxy-acetylene torch on one side and a propane torch on the other to get the heat in there quick enough. I put a propane heater on them and gradually lowered the heat every 15-20 minutes to bring the temp down slow.

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This should give the metal all the strength it had, with no weak spots. Now if I only had a wheel. One thing I noticed is the axle pins in on both sides, and looking at parts diagrams, it looks like it's just a plain 1.25" bar stock axle, with bearings on the hub using spacers either side to set preload. Fairly simple to fab up an axle if I can find the wheel.
 
So I've been working on the tractor for a few hours every night after work. It's been miserable, as we've got high humidity every day this week due to monsoons in the area, coupled with temps near 110. I spent about 5 hours scraping decades of oily dirt from the bottom of the tractor.

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After that, I removed all the hydraulics and associated mounts, tabs, etc. Everything was closed up to keep the components clean for future use.

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Tonight's project was to remove the radiator, so it was drained first. Straight water, it appears, and an answer to why it got a bit hot when I was loading it last weekend.

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After a rinse, and picking out a few pieces of rust from the tops of the tubes, it looks much better. I still need to pull the bottom tank so I can rod it if needed.

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This is where I'm at now. Tomorrow I'm taking the Mrs out to dinner for our anniversary, so Saturday's plan is to remove the engine for teardown, inspection, and reseal. Going really smooth so far, not a whole lot of stuck bolts. It almost appears this tractor has spent it's whole life in the desert, just looking at the lack of rust (everywhere but the cooling system). Almost to the point of planning how to strip the paint. I'm leaning towards liquid stripper, as I've used it in the past, and it works well. I'd rather not sandblast inside my shop.

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Took my time this weekend, and got where I wanted to get, engine out and tore down for inspection. Everything looks good. Head gasket was leaking some oil by the pushrod holes, I need to check the deck and head for warping. I'll probably go back to an old trick I used back in the Navy to pass an inspection. I had an old Cummins diesel that needed the counterbores cut, but that wasn't going to happen. When the liner heights aren't right, you'll have some compression leaks under load. The old Master Chief diesel inspector had hit me twice, but knew it wasn't going to get fixed. I bought a can of copper spray gasket and sprayed down the head gaskets and block/heads with it, then assembled it. No more leaks. I never did tell him what I'd done, but he never bothered me again. :lol:

I have a Felpro gasket set coming this week, just need to think about getting some paint already so I can paint the hard to reach spots before I reassemble the engine.

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This past week has been a slow one, mainly due to not being able to use conventional tools and methods to remove the crank pulley. It was rusted stuck on the crank real good. Lots of PB Blaster and heat, with regular pullers and even a 10 ton porta-power with chains didn't budge it (bent the backing plate I made up). So I spent a couple of evenings fabricating a puller similar to those shown in various searches on this site and others. A 6 ton bottle jack and 2 torches for heat proved to be the trick. The crank and pulley cleaned up nicely, and will slip about halfway on by hand now. Shouldn't be a problem reassembling it.

IMAG3494.jpg


I pulled the front gear cover, mainly to replace the gasket, and noticed the cam gear set back 1/8" or so. When I removed the flywheel to mount the engine on the stand, I figured out the cam thrust washer was long gone. The shiny line is from the rear of the cam.

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I found a replacement brass thrust washer for it on Ebay, and also picked up a replacement governor thrust bearing as well, since it appears to be tired.

Engine is finally up on the stand so I can pull the pan and check the bottom end. My full gasket set should be here in a day or two. I need to start thinking about paint. I was at the Tractor Supply in Kingman AZ yesterday, they had about every other brand's colors except Case Flambeau Red. Figures...

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I got the new thrust washer for the cam, and thrust bearing for the governor today. The pan is off, engine needs some cleaning inside, not the worst I've seen.

The oil screen has a hole in it. Does anyone know what size mesh it is? I can buy sheets on Ebay to fix it, would rather buy one the right size the first time around. They have from 400+ micron down to less than 100 micron screens, I'm thinking it may be a 200 micron or so, not the finest mesh by far.
 
Thanks for the insight. I have a borescope I can use to take a look back there with. I don't see a whole lot of corrosion on the block up front, it's fairly clean. Most all of the sludge and rust in the radiator appears to have come from the top tank itself. I can also sonic test the sleeves to see if they're losing material in the back. I didn't have any smoke or blowby issues while running it, so I will probably pass on rings for now. The valve cover crankcase vent elbow was dry when I pulled the engine cover. I found a box of used valves in Dad's garage for the tractor, so that's probably why it runs good, he's been in it.

I have seen some 4" bore sleeves available for this engine, is there an on the shelf piston available, or is it custom due to the pin height?

Any insight on the oil pump screen size?
 
Here's a conversion in inches

http://www.filterbag.com/U-S-Mesh-vs-Micron-21.htm

Talk to John saeli on the pistons and sleeves
 
Thanks for that link. I'll try to make something of that tomorrow. I spent the morning degreasing and stripping paint off the block and pan, and ended up pulling the pistons and crank to clean them up better. Turns out, you were spot on about the rings. I checked just the top ring on #4, right around .190" gap. :roll: So tomorrow I'm going to weld up a fixture so I can use my porta-power to push the sleeves out from the bottom, just to be sure on the corrosion you spoke of. If it's there, I'll probably just go ahead and get the 4" piston kit. I'm hoping it's not, of course. The bearings all look good, although there are no shims on the rods like the manual says there would be. I guess that would mean they need re-babbitted next time one gets loose. For what I'll be using it for, doubt that would ever happen.
 

Just measure the mesh with a pair of calipers and match it up. Hopefully your sleeves are good kits are not cheep. The pic I posted was on a case SC the ring gap is .010-.020 yours as you probably know is .015-.025 . Sounds like your planning to remove them now Id get in there and look first with your borescope before you push or pull the sleeves out I had about .080 -.090 left on the bottom of the block in the right hand corner around the #4 and its a 52 year model I would proceed with caution corrosion can be severe.
 
(quoted from post at 09:05:16 08/21/16)
Heres a 2 pics of the #4

Yeah, I can see where that would be a problem. I guess I'll wait 'til tomorrow, since I forgot my sonic tester and borescope at work Friday. Thanks again for taking the time to help me out here.
 
(quoted from post at 17:11:46 08/21/16)
(quoted from post at 09:05:16 08/21/16)
Heres a 2 pics of the #4

Yeah, I can see where that would be a problem. I guess I'll wait 'til tomorrow, since I forgot my sonic tester and borescope at work Friday. Thanks again for taking the time to help me out here.

What I did with mine was I removed the #1 first after looking around it with an inspection mirror that allowed for a clean up and a close inspection of # 2 thru the sleeve hole and so on and so on. If you run into a serious issue you can stop and evaluate the problem with a minimum of access trouble. Did you find a wheel hub and rim for it If not check Rusty Acres Don Livingston he may have a salvage DC3 or SC3 or at least be able to guide you in the right direction.

Best of luck with it Byron
 
Ok, I took a look in there with the borescope, it does have some buildup areound number 4. I gauged it with a screwdriver after cleaning it up a bit, and it's about an inch thick. Not sure if I want to mess with it, I'm leaning toward leaving it alone, since it won't be a work tractor anytime soon.
 
So this week's been a bit slow with the tractor, as work has been a madhouse, and I've been tired out every night. My team is refurbishing an Oshkosh T1500 to send overseas to a customer, and they want it done by mid-October. Should be no problem if the paint shop can keep up. :roll: Here's where I'm at with it as of Thursday.

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This is what it looked like a week earlier.

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By Thursday evening, I felt like I had a faucet on my face with a cold I caught. I barely got the coffee on Friday morning when I felt like I was going to pass out, so I called in sick and laid around the house all day thinking of doing stuff, but getting nothing actually done. Felt much better today, so I got out and stripped a bunch of engine parts so it'll be ready to paint up before mating it back up to the transmission. Got the oil pan, front timing cover, valve cover, magneto mount, upper air filter housing, and fan done. The aircraft stripper works much better than the Kleen Strip stuff. The paint comes off a coat at a time, and this tractor looks like it's had 3 coats in it's lifetime. One of them was a silver brush job. :? I stripped the block last weekend with a wire cup brush on an angle grinder, since I didn't have the aircraft stripper, and the silver paint coat was much tougher than the topcoat.

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I also messed with the fan pulley a bit to get it apart. Had to cut a couple of the bolts off, they were stripped, nut just spinning. After finishing cleaning it up to fit like it's supposed to, I was going to call it a night. I checked the mail before going inside, and found my new wide alternator pulley kit had arrived. I'll be running a Delco 10si alternator, and noticed the extra wide belt pulley for the original generator. I found this kit on Ebay for under $20 shipped, and the width is a perfect match with the original pulley.

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I'm still waiting on some rings for the engine, they should be here any day now.
 
(quoted from post at 04:53:34 08/23/16) Ok, I took a look in there with the borescope, it does have some buildup areound number 4. I gauged it with a screwdriver after cleaning it up a bit, and it's about an inch thick. Not sure if I want to mess with it, I'm leaning toward leaving it alone, since it won't be a work tractor anytime soon.

Well you could be right you know what they say If it aint broke don't fix it!
Best of luck with it Byron
 

looks like is going good for ya. Boy watch that Aircraft paint stripper That will eat the skin right off of your fingers or whatever you get it on if you don't get it neutralized.
best of luck with it Byron
 
Yeah, I have a good pair of solvent gloves, but other than that, I tend to work in shorts and rubber slippers, since getting any on you, you notice right away, and just hose it right off. With long pants, you get some on, you'll get burned before you notice, and/or end up with soaked clothes anyway. Done that too many times at work working with cleaners.

Took it easy today, helped my son do some carb tuning on his old '51 Chevy Styleline Deluxe. We got it running real good with the 350 and Edelbrock carb. I did make up a new alternator bracket for the DC this afternoon, still need to make the upper arm for full adjustment. Pics coming when it's done.
 
It's been a slow week, but I did manage to get the crank back in, pistons cleaned up and new rings installed, and get them back in the block. After cleaning up the cam and lifters, I've decided to send out the lifters to be refaced. There are a couple of places in California that still do them, but I want to check a couple of the local shops first. They've been around for decades, and just might have the machine to do them. They are all a bit concave rather than convex, and due to the cam's fiber washer being missing, they were riding the extreme edge of the cam lobe. The cam looks to be okay, I checked all the lobes with a dial caliper, not the most accurate, but all lobes were equal measurement side to side, and with each other. I'm going to finish cleaning up the rest of the engine parts this week while I wait for the lifters to be done.

We spent some more time on the '51 Chevy today, making up a new brake line for the rear which got crushed when it was shipped over from Hawaii earlier this year. Some dummy put axle straps over the line and crushed it in two spots. We also did a couple other things in the name of safety, like new locknuts on the c-arms on the Mustang II front end. The old ones were tired, and working their way loose.
 
Glad to see your making progress on it. All your bearings and the crank were good if I remember right so you just reinstalled them. well that's good news.
Best of luck with it Byron
 
(quoted from post at 14:21:18 09/06/16) Glad to see your making progress on it. All your bearings and the crank were good if I remember right so you just reinstalled them. well that's good news.
Best of luck with it Byron

Yes, bearings looked real good, but no more shims in the rods, so if one ever comes loose, I'll have to probably pick up a spare or two off Ebay. I'd imagine that's much cheaper than pouring new babbit. I was reading the other day where these rods had the babbit centrifugally cast, sounds expensive. I checked the new rings, they're right at about .032" gaps, a bit higher than the .020-.025" specs, but way better than what they were. I did ball hone and reamed the ridges off the tops of the sleeves too, they'll seat real good hopefully. Definitely a departure from what I'm used to building, but it was running, and can only run better when I'm done. I have a new governor bearing for it, the old one was showing signs of wear, looks like a couple of spots it may have been stuck at some point. I did find a local machine shop that may be able to reface the lifters, I spoke with the owner today, he says bring 'em down, and we'll figure it out. They've been around since the early 60's, I figured if anyone had a grinder, it'd be them.

I stopped by the Autozone after work, they don't have any wire to wire up the main cap bolts. The manager was honest, said the stuff they have is junk, and will break instead of twist, so I went back to the shop and borrowed some good wire from a co-worker. I should be able to finish that up tonight, after I fix the clutch on my Ford. Damned o-ring on the master cylinder leaked everything out, so I rode the bike to work. Nothing's ever finished, always something else to fix. :roll:
 
So this week, I've been working on a few things. First was the governor. I had already purchased a new bearing, but then the subject of governors came up in another thread, and it was suggested that the fork the bearing rides on may be worn. I went and checked, and sure enough, it was. Also note the two wear spots on the bearing face.

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A couple pulls of the mig welder had the wear spots filled.

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A bit of grinding, and it's looking like new again. The shaft was also cleaned and lubed, and is nice and smooth now.

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During the week, I dropped off the lifters at a local machine shop to be refaced, as they were looking rough. They ended up machining them on the lathe, not what I was looking for, but they do have a slight crown to them now, just not the non-directional swirl you would get by grinding them properly. I'm going to look for a new machine shop at this point, this is not the first bad service I've received there.

Saturday I cleaned up a bunch of parts real good and primed them with some Van Sickle primer. If I end up going with urethane paint, I'll just seal this primer first, since it's enamel. Today I put more parts together, like the oil pan, timing cover, and magneto.

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I noticed with the magneto that the flange on the end of the shaft on the engine side had moved back a bit. I'm going to have to fix it, as at first I thought something was missing. This probably explains the two worm clamps holding the mag on. When I mounted the mag with bolts, it had a gap between the drive big enough to not engage the teeth on one side. I was able to slide the flange out to where it needs to be, but now I'll have to figure out how it needs to be tightened. Any input would be helpful. It looks like it may have a tabbed washer behind the nut, and just needs to be tightened a bit more. Either that, or I'll put a shaft collar in back of it so it can't slide out again. You can see how much it moved by the marks on the primer.

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Next will be getting it off the stand, get the clutch on, and get it back on the tractor. Then I'll mount the head. I don't want to get too much weight on the stand, being everything is so heavy. Here's a shot of the left side, showing the new alternator mount.

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I need to get some 1/4" carriage bolts for the fan pulley before I put it all back together. The old ones were bent/stuck, and had to be cut off. Not the best belt tensioning system I've ever worked with.
 

Nice job on the governor did you replace the bearing? On your magneto I really don't know I'm surprised no Experts have answered back. Then again You may want to start another post so they wont have to read through all the previous comments you may get some response's then.
Best of luck with it Byron
 
I did put in a new bearing on the governor. I'll probably just go with a clamp on shaft collar for now for the magneto shaft. I've got it off the stand now, and the flywheel and clutch installed. I'm going to hold off for a couple of days though, as other stuff has come up, specifically my truck, the throwout bearing found it's way into the clutch fingers, so it's locked up tight on the pedal. New clutch going in over the next day or two. As far as the tractor, I figured I should change the clutch shaft seals while it's apart, so I have some coming this way. A search shows that a CR9876 is the right seal for the shaft. Hopefully I can have it back together this weekend.
 
I didn't even realize it's been over a month since I updated this thread. I've been so busy at work, time's been flying by. Lots of overtime working on this Oshkosh T1500 I posted a pic of earlier. It's done now, going back to the paint shop for some touch up work this week, then ships out next week.

I haven't got as much time in on the tractor as I'd like to, but work comes first. I did get some more parts stripped and cleaned up, and primed. On the engine, I used the Chevy Red-Orange engine paint as some people suggested, mostly to cover parts that will not be accessible once I put on other parts over them. I figure if I do that, I can re-prime the parts with sealer before putting on the good paint, and whatever I can't reach will still be a close match on the paint, and probably will never be seen anyway.

I've been seeing a few complete tractors for sale out this way, mostly in California and Idaho with the elusive single wheel option, but they either don't have enough other parts I need nor decent rear tires to justify the drive and the asking price. I also don't need a whole 'nother tractor in the yard. Anyone with a narrow or single front for a DC they're willing to part with, or know of someone with such, I would appreciate the opportunity to offer some greenbacks in exchange. I'm almost back to the starting point on the chassis, and may have to remount those small wheels to move it around. I'm thinking of sandblasting the rear half, which would probably require I move it out of my shop, or build an enclosure to keep the dust and sand down. Probably close to even money to just haul it somewhere to have it blasted in town. Shouldn't be more than a couple hours work just to do the rear half, minus fenders. All decisions I have to make soon.

I did find a PPG dealer in town who was able to confirm the Case Flambeau Red code 71282 is still available. About $180/gal for Omni, but I might step up to DCC Concept, as it doesn't stink near as much when sprayed. I didn't ask pricing for the Concept, but it's probably double or more than the Omni. I'm hoping I can get to the paint in the next month or so, before the cold sets in, or it'll have to wait.

Here's a picture I took today.


41842.jpg
 
Yep that hub and tire could be costly to ship its mighty heavy Frankly they may have to ship as freight its to heavy for regular shipping. Better if you can find one in your area. However the tractor is looking good.
Byron
 
I spoke with a guy yesterday who has one for sale who needs it gone. I hate to low ball people, as everyone has to make a living, but if he bites, I may just go get the whole thing. I could have my belt pulley, wheel, rear floorboards, drawbar, and a few other pieces. Too bad the tires aren't any good, that would make it a deal.
 

Well there's lots of reasons for you to buy it a lot of parts you can use if you have the room for it. Most folks may go for less Particularly if he just wants it gone, you didn't say what he wanted for it but if you believe there's room to negotiate you can always ask good luck with it.

Byron
 
Hey everyone, been awhile since I updated this thread. I haven't gotten as far along as I'd planned, but it's still moving along slowly. I was very fortunate to finally get ahold of Ken in AZ, and he was gracious enough to donate a tricycle front end to the project. Ken has a nice little collection of Case tractors down there. Thanks again, Ken!

I've been working on the alternator (one wire conversion), belts, the pulleys, alternator brackets, and descaling the radiator top tank over the past few months when I get some free time. I've been really busy with work, doing some traveling to the Pacific this year. Went to Fiji and the island nation of Tuvalu back in late March, early April. I saw a few David Brown 990's in Fiji, still going strong.

Here's an updated photo of the '41 DC project.

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I'm hoping to start on all the brake and axle seals soon, and get the rear stripped for paint. I was able to find a couple gallons of Flambeau Red Van Sickle paint while on a day trip to Utah. This tractor will live inside the shed when it's done, so for now, that will do.
 

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