Bad grooves in cylinder block?

Henrik Jansson · Mar 31, 2015

How bad is this lower grooves?
What should I do?
I have used sandpaper on it. Should I do some more work on it?
It is a Case 1370. The sleeves have 3 O-rings.

John Saeli · Mar 31, 2015

I don't think you will have a problem. When we have pitting & electrolysis tracking, we fix them with J. B. Weld, but from the pic's here, I think you will be OK. I know a retired CASE mechanic who told me that whenever he replaced Sleeves, he always added a Radiator Sealant to the coolant.

Joe (Wa) · Mar 31, 2015

In the marine industry we use to Devcon the lands on the larger auxiliary diesels. JB weld is similar to Devcon. I am sure you know the o-rings are going to be sliding up and down on the lands with thermal changes. You need to make it as smooth as possible.

Joe

Brokengun · Apr 1, 2015

I know of a diesel mechanic that uses an engine hone to "very carefully" clean up the cylinder sleeve area of an engine block. Please understand he doesn't remove metal just cleans the area up with the hone. I claims to be cutting any rough lip area with the hone.

P.S> he doesn't use the stone type hone

From what I see in your pictures the area cleaned up and brightened up pretty well by hand.

Personally I don't think you will have a problem.

Henrik Jansson · Apr 1, 2015

Ok, thanks!

Is there a risk that the diameter will be to wide if I do to much work with sandpaper?

mEl · Apr 1, 2015

(quoted from post at 15:24:18 04/01/15) Ok, thanks!

Is there a risk that the diameter will be to wide if I do to much work with sandpaper?

I looked at that when I first saw those pics. The grooves will probably not hurt it BUT, and I throw this out to all to consider, when I build my big bore DCs I manufacture my sleeves to use conventional o rings as used on sleeves with grooves for them as I cut the big oring groove almost completely out of the block.

I then prep the sleeves and block clean and dry and install the sleeves using 271 high strength as the lubricant and I apply it liberally enough to fill the void between the orings.

The sleeves go in easily and I believe the set up loctie serves to seal them as well and when dry should stabilize the sleeve from moving. The block shows evidence that the sleeves were moving to leave that imprint in the block surface.

Using this method sleeve removal has never been an issue as well.

I will not make the call for someone else but I definately would use that method in this situation.

Mel.

Joe (Wa) · Apr 1, 2015

"The sleeves go in easily and I believe the set up loctie serves to seal them as well and when dry should stabilize the sleeve from moving. The block shows evidence that the sleeves were moving to leave that imprint in the block surface".

mEL, surely you mean stabilize the sleeve from moving laterally? Sleeve thermal expansion is downward at firing temps otherwise it will crack will it not? I don't have a lot of small gas engine overhaul experience, a dozen or so total, but have some 35 years on small and medium size marine diesels in the 3,500 to 16,000 hp range. I can't even imagine locking up a sleeve so it can't move.

Joe

mEl · Apr 1, 2015

Joe,
The engines we build are for competing in pulls and some have triple the HP of stock and we have never had a cracked sleeve and we are running sleeves as thin as .133. I have seen a 830 block worn laterally at the lower bore enough to allow the sleeve to radially crack down at the counterbore depth. Yes I was referring to the loctite to stop lateral movement.

I would not even hesitate to use it under this situation, it would simply act as a spacer of sorts. As easily as the sleeve pulls upon disassembly I can't see it stopping thermal expansion.

I will not argue with you or your experience rebuilding engines , just giving an opinion and if it were mine that's what I would do, fully expecting to have it hold up.

I fully expected this to be controversial and that's ok, Ultimately he must decide how to repair or reassemble as is.

Mel

Joe (Wa) · Apr 1, 2015

Ok mEL, I understand where your coming from now. I've learned quite a bit from your posts, this one just adds some more.

Joe

mEl · Apr 2, 2015

Joe,

You as well, I admire your ability to label and post pics and there are no areas that you do not seem to have a grasp on. It is our job to compliment each others knowledge.

Admittedly I do have ideas that are no longer mainstrean but those ideas are rooted in experiences that are still stuck in my mind from 40-50 years ago.

The average person would cringe at the thought of not using a head gasket, but we have not in ten years in out hot builds. Not something I would do in a work engine but even pulling have had that setup go for a couple years in weekend warrior engines.

Keep up the good work,

Mel

Robert Major · Apr 2, 2015

Hi I would vouch for block sealant in a case to. had a guy bring his new purchase 1175 into the shop here, for a service before he used it. I dropped the oil out the motor and the first stuff out was green . ok this isn't good! dropped the pan and looked at the bottom of the sleeves, you can guess the rest.
So this guy spent all his money and can't afford the rebuild and needs to bale that week. i suggested as a temporary fix adding a block sealant and that he says a good prayer, so we left the block dry while i did the other work. then when he came to collect it added the coolant and block seal and he drove home.

Well that temporary fix was 5 years ago. It hasn't leaked a drop since. Every time he comments on it i do tell him that one day it will fail and make a mess of the motor, like i told him the first day if it worked. Right now he still thinks a $12 suggestion was worth every cent.If that tractor had been mine it wouldn't of worked right from the start!
Regards Robert

Bad grooves in cylinder block?

Henrik Jansson

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John Saeli

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Joe (Wa)

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Brokengun

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Henrik Jansson

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mEl

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Joe (Wa)

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mEl

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Joe (Wa)

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mEl

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Robert Major

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