Trouble shooting challenge for Case mechanics.

steven meckstroth · Dec 27, 2014

A farmer comes in to our store. He hasn't done any maintenance on his 530 gas for a couple of years. He purchases plugs, points, condenser, rotor, cap, coil, wires, oil and filter, muffler, and set of cushions. He calls in two days later. He's installed everything on the tractor. He started it and left it idling and went into the house. About an hour later, he went out and found that the tractor had quit running. He tried starting it, and it started right up. It ran for about 5 minutes, then died and wouldn't restart. He left it sit for half an hour, and tried it again. It started right up, idled for about 5 minutes and died again. That is when he calls.

You’re the mechanic. What would be your first troubleshooting question for the farmer? Why? What would you tell him to do to prove your theory?

I'll give you some time to think about this. If nobody gets the correct answer, I'll give it tomorrow. In case you are wondering, this is something that actually happened.

BarryfromIA · Dec 27, 2014

I am not a mechanic, but is it getting gas? several things to check there like drain the carb, remove gas line, look in tank.

steven meckstroth · Dec 27, 2014

I am not a mechanic, but is it getting gas? several things to check there like drain the carb, remove gas line, look in tank.[/quote]

Good guess, but no. He had filled up the tank after he did the tune up. It had plenty of gas.

JHH · Dec 27, 2014

I'm with Barry, first check that it is getting gas to the carb. Check plugged vent in gas cap, dirt in tank, line, or filter.

steven meckstroth · Dec 27, 2014

The problem had nothing to do with the carb, lines, or fuel filter. I forgot to mention that he changed the air filters, so it was getting adequate air supply also.

steven in Tn · Dec 27, 2014

sounds like a bad coil or condencer.

steven meckstroth · Dec 27, 2014

He had just install a new coil and condensor. There was nothing wrong with either one.

Try again.

olddog · Dec 28, 2014

1st ? = Did he adjust the mixture after the tuneup, filters & muffler?
Have him go work the dog crap out of it, should clear the fouled plugs.
PS: not a mecanick but do own a VAC.

Thad · Dec 28, 2014

He forgot to add the engine oil and seized a brg in the motor? When it cools off for a bit it unsticks until it gets hot again. I know that sounds crazy but have heard of it happening.

steven meckstroth · Dec 28, 2014

(quoted from post at 05:38:11 12/28/14) He forgot to add the engine oil and seized a brg in the motor? When it cools off for a bit it unsticks until it gets hot again. I know that sounds crazy but have heard of it happening.

Good guesses, but no. He filled it with oil, and it was not seizing. He did not touch the carb. The carb was not the problem.

Cory Schmidt · Dec 28, 2014

That does happen. Rebuilt a JD 2440 because it had coolant in oil. got it out of the shop, went baling died. Hit the switch fired back up/ died shortly after. Got it limped back to the shop pulled oil pan. Spun main bearings.

Adirondack case guy · Dec 28, 2014

Well, I will throw in my 2cts. Bad ignition switch?
Loren

rich10e · Dec 28, 2014

Loose wire to the coil,forgot to tighten

Cory Schmidt · Dec 28, 2014

How is the battery and generator? Could be not charging enough to run. The battery might have enough juice to start when it sits(how many people thump remotes to get a few more buttons out of a dead battery?) Yet the battery doesn't have enough charge left to run.

L.Fure · Dec 28, 2014

If it had to do with the parts he installed, the muffler hasn't been mentioned. Could it it be a plugged up muffler?

C. Amick · Dec 28, 2014

Sounds like a fuel flow problem to me.

steven meckstroth · Dec 28, 2014

(quoted from post at 07:49:28 12/28/14)
If it had to do with the parts he installed, the muffler hasn't been mentioned. Could it it be a plugged up muffler?

We have a winner. Ifure has guessed it.

Now the rest of the story: My parts man took the call from the farmer and shared the details while on the phone. He gave me a very strange look when I told him to ask the farmer "how loud is the tractor when it is running?" The farmer said it had never been that quiet when running. I told him to take off the muffler, then leave the tractor idle. He called be 2 hours later, saying that the tractor had idled for over an hour without dying. Told him to bring the muffler back and we would give him another.

We took the muffler into the shop, and pressurized it with shop. 100 psi on the inlet side, nothing coming out the outlet. Apparently one of the baffle plates was missing its holes.

Sometimes you have to think outside the box when trouble shooting

rankrank1 · Dec 28, 2014

Excellent telephone troubleshooting by you Steve. I would have likely guessed bad condenser or bad coil. Course I would have simply used the old parts to confirm my suspicion before ever calling you.

Not so good troubleshooting by the ole farmer, I think Forrest Gump could likely tell nothing was exiting the muffler or the exhaust was overly restricted.

L.Fure · Dec 28, 2014

I worked in an auto parts store many years ago, and saw my share of defective parts. And defective mechanics. Had a shade tree mechanic come in for some exhaust pipes for a car he was working on. He came back a few hours later with the exhaust pipe and tail pipe. Laid them on the counter to show me that the two pipe ends were the same size and wouldn't fit together. I picked up the tail pipe and turned it around fitting the two parts together. He picked up the pipes and left without saying a word.

tractorguy2 · Dec 28, 2014

I've been around a few plugged mufflers. They make a hissing sound.

OliverNate · Dec 28, 2014

I've heard of mufflers being the culprit for lack of power, but woulda never thought of that on a brand new one. Have to put that in the memory bank, haha good thing I run straight pipe on everything.

barnyardorange · Dec 28, 2014

I was going to start with fuel. With what was
said with it running and then quitting after
some time, I was thinking a badly venting fuel
cap. Next I would have customer put an in-line
spark tester. (although, customer probably
doesn't have one) Then, as a mechanic, it takes
some thinking outside of the box, as you had to
do in this case. Most times where I work, our
customers forget to put tractor in neutral to
start it, and with safety switches today, it's
not going to start unless juice is going from
batt. to key switch and to starter. Glad you
found the problem!

fixerupper · Dec 28, 2014

(reply to post at 08:57:42 12/27/14) [/quot

Gas valve turned off but it leaks just a bit.

Dr. Walt · Dec 29, 2014

I initially thought of a blockage or partial-blockage
in the exhaust pipe (outboard from the muffler) from
a bird or mouse nest; (or potato or tennis ball, HEE
HEE . Don't ask me how I know this.) as that would
give the same symptoms.

I read down further, and read the answer. I never
would have guessed that a brand new, sealed, muffler
would have a baffle-plate installed without having
the holes punched in it.

Doc :>)

Bret4207 · Dec 29, 2014

(quoted from post at 13:04:45 12/28/14)

(quoted from post at 07:49:28 12/28/14)
If it had to do with the parts he installed, the muffler hasn't been mentioned. Could it it be a plugged up muffler?

Click to expand...

We have a winner. Ifure has guessed it.

Now the rest of the story: My parts man took the call from the farmer and shared the details while on the phone. He gave me a very strange look when I told him to ask the farmer "how loud is the tractor when it is running?" The farmer said it had never been that quiet when running. I told him to take off the muffler, then leave the tractor idle. He called be 2 hours later, saying that the tractor had idled for over an hour without dying. Told him to bring the muffler back and we would give him another.

We took the muffler into the shop, and pressurized it with shop. 100 psi on the inlet side, nothing coming out the outlet. Apparently one of the baffle plates was missing its holes.

Sometimes you have to think outside the box when trouble shooting

I've had several small engine mufflers with no holes in the baffle. Not common, but it happens enough that it's hit me 3-4 times.

NEKS · Dec 31, 2014

Put a 150 gallon farm fuel tank in pickup to haul fuel. Piped electric fuel pump out of hole in end of tank. Pump wasn't moving much fuel. Found when they punched hole in end of tank didn't knock it all the way out.

Trouble shooting challenge for Case mechanics.

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