loving EPA- NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the electric bill that I get from Red Lake Electric every month And it keeps going up year after year thanks to all the a--holes that keep voting for the nnalert in the twin cities. they may think they are helping the environment by jumping the price of the kwh by taxing power produced by coal when in reality they are hurting the many (Labor working) families in the north to the point That they have to cut their ties and move to other states for a new start.note the upper left corner of my bill I hope You can read it

In our area we have 167 windmills on prime farm ground. (why do they need to be HERE?) In the past month and a half there have been many days with almost no wind. People ask "why aren't the windmills turning" discounting the need for WIND. If we get rid of coal and count MORE on wind where will that leave us?

Trade ya. Here, SE Kansas 17.5 cents KW. This is REA power. Tom

Not bad on price where you are at. Here, E SD, mine is .11 for the first 1000 kwh and .080 for the balance. You must have some high energy use for this time of year as ours was 39 kwh per day use.

It looks like you are only paying .095 cents per KWH. I am paying 12 cents per KWH.

The insanity of the EPA and the morons in the government disgusts me.

We have been burning coal in the country for over 100 years, we got 26% of the coal in the world. And, coal is cheep. Yet, external_link and his goons want coal fired plants idled.......WTF?

Makes you sick don't it.

The only way to reverse this stupidity is at the ballot box. Get as many like-minded people as possible to join you at the polls.

I, like most everyone hate to see our cost of power continue to rise and no doubt some of that cost does go to fund some regulations where the money is wasted. However I shutter to think what big business would dump on us and the planet if there was no one over seeing their actions. It has been proven many times some only care about the almighty dollar and not the publics well being. Look at the cost of freedom. We know the military can waste money, but I am sure glad someone is watching. Our cost of a kWh is higher than yours also and yes it sucks, Rod.

Thank You folks for making me feel better about what We pay for electricity I do know we have been going through a lot of kwhs and I need to get someone out here to check for a leak. and I also agree on the coal issue They keep telling U.S. residents that we need to be more self sufficient and not to rely solely on the gov to solve the energy crisis and the next thing You know they are slapping a new tax or surcharge on any Business that is trying to do just that it just doesn't make any sense.

I’m going to answer this as it would apply to saving case tractors.

How many people would like to have extra money to save Case equipment? I know I would, yet we are spending extra money that’s based on a political agenda instead of what’s safest and best for the country.

Coal plants burn the coal on a bed of air; this allows the coal to be burnt very efficiently. It’s been done this way for decades. The Amount of pollutants given off is very minimal.

Our great leader said he was going to shut down coal plants and so far that is the only campaign promise he has actually tried to keep.

The way I look at this we are over paying for electric power. Alaska alone has enough coal to last the USA for 2000 years; add in the soft coal in Utah that slick Willy put off limits the USA could be self sufficient for centuries beyond.

Today we have case equipment being scrapped because people can’t afford the cost of repair.

I for one believe a day will come we will wish we had that old iron.

Sad part is as bad as it may seem now just wait until around this time next year; it’s going to be worse.

We don't hear about evil SUVs or Case tractors anymore, the new villain is coal fired power plants, or coal fired Case tractor plants. Part or most of the issue is some people who claim to represent our best interests so we keep re-electing them to continue to represent our best interests use emotional appeals to insure they get to keep their jobs. I watched the battle a consortium of power companies went through to build a new coal-fired power plant in Western Wisconsin (Weston). In reality that new plant was going to be far more efficient (I can't remember the exact numbers but I'm thinking it would use 10-11% less coal per kilowatt), and was being built so at sometime in the future it could do "Carbon Capture" where all carbon emissions could be trapped in a solid form and used or deposited in an environmentally responsible manner. What the press or the anti-carbons folks also neglected to mention was several old less efficient and dirtier plants, like one in Green Bay Wisconsin would be closed permanently when Weston V came on line. So in reality Weston V would result in less emissions to the environment than plants currently generating this power. Another issue the coal police don't want to address is all of the natural gas the new natural gas plants are soaking up has risen the cost of natural gas. This is preventing the economic conversion of Case tractors to run on compressed natural gas. Case tractors are not unique, they are a smaller point source user of fossil fuels, like many other tractors and other things like your home furnace or the steam boiler at the local Dairy or canning plant. In an effective energy plan the cleaner burning fuels like natural gas or propane would be left for the smaller use sources and big users like electric power plants would use coal and low energy density biofuels to generate power. In large users like this it is economically feasible to use improved technology to reduce emissions produced and after the process measures like scrubbers and such to clean up the waste stream before discharge.

As far as the abundant morons in the cities ruining the quality of life for the rest of the state I can say Detroit is most of the reason I don't live in Michigan anymore and Illinois has similar problems with Chicago. Maybe we should force them to see the injustice of Case equipment being scrapped because we can't afford to save it because of their choice to live in a big city with a lot of people polluting. The only effective means of dealing with this is for the rest of the state to implement local taxes that effect the big city, for example implement a tax on power produced at a plant to be paid by the folks that use the power. Example the Weston power plant gets taxed by the county or city on each KW it produces with revenue going to the local municipality, that way money flow from the cities to the rural areas that have power plants. Tax refuse going to land fills, again more garbage coming out of the cities, let the locations of the landfills reap a benefit from it. Our counter that pollution is something that effects the entire state so any fees or taxes collected to reduce it have to be distributed by area or at the location of the environmental insult (power plant, landfill, recycling facility). This would also help rural communities implement the recycling programs required by law. When you have low population density it becomes really costly to collect plastic and paper for recycling, a lot of travel for a small amount of product.

The other tactic is what Upper Michigan does, they threaten to leave and form their own state.

Sorry, but the facts regarding emissions from coal plants do not match what is being written here. Wish it were so because there is plenty of fossil fuel in the ground in this country and the world. But these plants do pollute enormously compare to natural gas or wind or solar power or even nuclear power (but then there are waste storage problems). We pay the price now for developing these clean fuels or our future generations will pay even more dearly. Climate change is a scientific reality, not a myth and it's impacts are definitely being felt environmentally and economically already. Until there is truly a method for burning coal without the emissions that are emitted now other sources need to be looked at and used. It is not happening now or in the near furure. Science is science and we need to pay attention to it not just emotion. It hits my pocket book too but there are many places with much more expensive power. I apologize if this got long-rather see tractors talked about. Thank you.

Redoak,

I think climate change is a reality, it is what is causing it which is debatable. I will also agree that natural gas is cleaner than coal, except the eviro-weenies do not want to use these resources either. As for solar, I am not so sure that is cleaner than getting our electricity from coal. One of the reasons solar is so expensive is because of the amount of energy required to manufacture solar panel, and it is done in China where environmental laws are much more lax, where they exist at all. Further, the utilization of solar where T Whalen lives means you may not get enough energy over the panels 20 year life as it took to manufacture it. Anyone that thinks Germany's huge investment in solar panels reduced CO2 emissions for the planet is fooling themselves, it reduced emissions for Germany, but not the planet as a whole. Two points, one: If you want to reduce CO2 emissions make things more efficient, not more expensive. This is because two: when things are more expensive, it often is because it takes more resources, meaning more energy, meaning more CO2. Your solar panels for example. The post on this thread are a lot closer to the facts than you give them credit for.

Personally I think all the EPA rules are intended to send jobs to China and make everyone depended on the government.

+1 for Newell. Gubmint wants to keep everybody occupied with bread and circuses. Tom

My uneducated opinion is that burning coal in a manner that captures nearly ALL of the energy not only is GOOD for the environment, but is also much more efficient for the companies that use coal to produce energy. Becoming more efficient is the goal of ALL big companies, and cleaner air is one of the side effects. Therefore, the EPA is no longer needed, and actually was NEVER needed. We need to just get rid of it.

Dont feel lonly a few years back our remc started chargeing the same crap for new lines from the windmills they put up to our local substation. We dont even get our electricity from these idiots. We buy it from Illinois and we are in mid north Indiana. CRAZY!!!!!!!!!! Ken

(quoted from post at 02:09:47 09/16/14) Redoak,

I think climate change is a reality, it is what is causing it which is debatable. I will also agree that natural gas is cleaner than coal, except the eviro-weenies do not want to use these resources either. As for solar, I am not so sure that is cleaner than getting our electricity from coal. One of the reasons solar is so expensive is because of the amount of energy required to manufacture solar panel, and it is done in China where environmental laws are much more lax, where they exist at all. Further, the utilization of solar where T Whalen lives means you may not get enough energy over the panels 20 year life as it took to manufacture it. Anyone that thinks Germany's huge investment in solar panels reduced CO2 emissions for the planet is fooling themselves, it reduced emissions for Germany, but not the planet as a whole. Two points, one: If you want to reduce CO2 emissions make things more efficient, not more expensive. This is because two: when things are more expensive, it often is because it takes more resources, meaning more energy, meaning more CO2. Your solar panels for example. The post on this thread are a lot closer to the facts than you give them credit for.

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I debated greatly whether to reply as you have given a responsible reply. I do disagree however on some points. Solar energy (and wind) is getting cheaper and will continue to do so as it becomes more in use and cheaper with volume. China is producing cheaper volumes of solar in response and probably unfair to Am. manufacturers but that is being dealt with that on the international stage. But China is also responding greatly to the problems they have with incredible smog by moving to cleaner resources even though they are a dictatorship. Even they have to respond to popular opinion with emissions from fossil fuel are killing off their people. Historically in the U. S. many new progressions have been activated by the fed. gov't. ranging from the railroad system to the homestead act to rural electrification to the intersate highway system. Climate change, which has always ocurred to a certain extent and in it's present stage has been identified by 98% plus of the worlds's scientists as being caused by the extensive use of fossil fuels unabated or cleaned. Present technology has not provided an answer to those emissions totally-at least not enough to help control the climate change occuring. Yes, Germany is a case in point but it has to start somewhere and they have a ton less capability in regard to solar than the U. S. However every step forward, no matter how small (Germany is the largest economy in the EU) has an effect and small steps make big leaps. A capatalistic economy is still the best on earth but with out checks and balances it will still only serve the owners and the shareholders because for most profit without any form of social or economic or enovironmental restriction is the only norm. Profit is good but without balance it is destructive. Furthermore without the EPA we would still have rivers burning, rivers and lakes fouled beyond belief, fuel mileage figures from the 60's and 70's, skies and air looking like China's with resulting health and economic problems. I have had my problems dealing with the Corps of Engineers but to routinely condemn all of these agencies and theirs policies is foolhardy in the world longterm both environmentally and economically. Look beyond ourselves and our strictly personal interests to a more national and world veiew while still keeping an eye on the b-st-r-ds in charge. No more from me and hope there was no offense but only difference of viewpoint well taken.





















the EU Everything is incremental in it's start but it has to start and the U.S., China and western Europe are the biggest polluters, We are behind the curve in response except for China and perhaps other third world countries such as India. We are the least agressive of all except for in states like MN where I live and winters and electrical needs are extreme

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