STARTING FLUID, The Do's and Don'ts !

1370rod

Well-known Member
There, now that I have your attention. I would like to say what a wonderful thing this forum is allowing those that chose to express their opinions. Now on to the use of starting fluid. The fact is everyones right and no one is wrong on how they answered. Everyone based there opinion on their life experiences with it. If they seen negative results with its use of course their answer expressed that. Those that have used the product with no ill effects also stated so. We know there is ussually two sides to every story and this is certainly no exception. Having dealt with 100's of different operators through the years I know there may have been a few broken rings and pushed out headgaskets that owners have blamed on its use. I also know of operators useing it on almost a daily basis with seemingly no ill effects at all. So the fact is everyone is right depending on your experiences. Theres nothing wrong with being right! Thanks everyone for sharing your opinion, I for one will always value them Rod.
 
Rod, it's folks like you that I have thee aut-most respect for. I thank-you, lord knows that you have rebuilt enough engines and have heard enough stories to know the cause of the said engine being rebuilt with your hands, kinda like a doctor for tractors. If I had the cash I would load my 630 and leave tomorrow for yeah to tear into it. Get running right!! I'am sure there's others out there with your compassion for gett'en right. So keep the comments comming it just might save the life of a tractor. Thank-you Rod and to all thee others out there.
 
Lots of passion on this and many other subjects. Luckily with most newer engines it's no longer necessary. I find it a bit comical that case offered either injection kits as an option at least up to the 9270 4 wheel drives. Our 76 970 came with it and my brothers new 2290 and 9270 had it for sure. I found this especially odd since none of them ever needed it. lol
 
(quoted from post at 13:56:36 03/19/13) Lots of passion on this and many other subjects. Luckily with most newer engines it's no longer necessary. I find it a bit comical that case offered either injection kits as an option at least up to the 9270 4 wheel drives. Our 76 970 came with it and my brothers new 2290 and 9270 had it for sure. I found this especially odd since none of them ever needed it. lol

It is true a lot of models came equipped or had the ether injectors available as options. In each case they were plumbed right into the intake manifold and had an orfice so small that it can't be seen thru easily to preclude over ethering. To equate a engineered injection system to a man with a can in his hand is an apples and oranges type comparison. My advice and the majorities I might add still stands.

mEl
 
You're vocal, not necessarily the majority. They
sure do sell a lot of the stuff for the majority of
the people being so set against it. And holding that
button on an injection system for too long will do
as much damage as a can in the hand, for apples to
apples type comparison for you.
 
Rod: Here's the problem. We have calls from folks looking for heads for the older power cell diesels, that are becomming harder & harder to find. They are looking for heads because theirs are damaged. Same story, "I only used a small whiff". I've had customers tell me they use the stuff with no consequence. But, later in the conversation, tell me they can't fill the radiator as full as they'd like because it chugs it out. Or, they bring a head in for a valve job, & when I show them the crack, they can't believe it. For those reasons, I tell my customers, don't use it.
 
John, as stated before I am not promoting the use of starting fluid, nothing could be further from the truth. I only feel its fair to let those with no negative reports tell there story also. I wish we could blame the cracking of heads on the use of starting fluid, it would make the choice really easy to use or not. I have seen heads crack that were never exposed to starting fluid and know there are many factors to be taken in when trying to come up with a reason for failures. I simply do not want to tell someone they are wrong without knowing all the facts and I don't know them all. I respect everyones opinions. Thanks for your response, Rod.
 
I also think Rod gave a good presentation. I have seen many a cracked heads and broken rings from tractors that never heard of ether. Also, I know of some tractors that have been getting a sniff for many years with no ill effects. I have seen them locked up on ether also and that gets kind of scary when it is in the cyl, you know it is in there and don't dare try the starter. This was always done with the factory ether injection systems, not hand controlled spray. Sure it could be with either one, just saying the ones I have seen were not. I have tested many a factory ether systems with the orfice out in the open and it is amazing how much fluid can come thorough those tiny holes.
 
I've got a 1030 that I bought used in 72. Put sleeve and pistons in twice in the70s. Cracked a sleeve and put in new. Shortly after dealer told me Case said you needed to true the flange area to keep them from breaking sleeves. Sure enough 2 years put sleeves in again but, had the block trued up. That was in 76. Tractor is still on that overhaul. Heads are original yet. Always needs a whiff at temps below 60 degrees. When that tractor is in the field in the spring and temps. are 30 or below it needs a whiff to get it running. Other than run it home each nite and plug it in, its gonna take a little ether to get it running. I have overhauled all Case engines from the 504 on down so I know not to over use the ether and have had good luck. The heads on the 1030 and 730 are original and 40+ years old.
 
Guns don't kill,... people do.
Same with ether, depending on who's finger is on the nozzle.
Wait!! Does that make me for.. or against??? LOL
 
As For Cracked Heads =5-10 Minite Cold Down Time =No Cracked Heads /Ether is Not the Cause For Cracked heads /Cracked heads Come From Short Shut down time After Hard Work out / I didn't Work it Very Had =It wont Hurt anything = =Cracked Heads.I have seen to many tractors with cracked Heads This Way & All Them Are Not All Ways CASE.
 
(quoted from post at 21:13:26 03/19/13) As For Cracked Heads =5-10 Minite Cold Down Time =No Cracked Heads /Ether is Not the Cause For Cracked heads /Cracked heads Come From Short Shut down time After Hard Work out / I didn't Work it Very Had =It wont Hurt anything = =Cracked Heads.I have seen to many tractors with cracked Heads This Way & All Them Are Not All Ways CASE.

I will agree that cracked heads are not the result of ether assisted starting, that statement never came from me as I know better than that. Improper cooldown or leaky radiators and overheat is the enemy of the powercell type diesel engine as well for that matter and turboed engines need cooldown for a variety of reasons.

I occasionally have to use it in my trade also, I am 68 yrs old, actively employed as a mechanic at the same dealership where I started in 1962. Since 62 and have seen most everything in my career and do not need to defend my position.

As far as being a majority or not, I like being in the company I find myself, John Saeli for just one, not to miminize anyone else, who has more knowledge of Case stuff both new and old than most will ever attain. The posters who are against ether have had to repair the damage either by customers hands or self inflicted wounds as per Johns experience, Most of the ones against its use are in the business.

I have an 830 diesel, 1961 model with a working manifold heater and 2 1000 amp deka batteries in parallel with over the road truck cabling to the starter, we live in NC Pa. where it gets cold. We use it with a rear mount blade to plow out after snows. I would not be able to find a can of ether on my farm and the tractor starts when we need it, usually without plugging it in. A 1030 is a 6 cyl version of the 830 and I would expect similar starting results.
 
When any CASE engine will not start below 60 degrees, without ether, something is wrong. No cracks? Try this & get back, if you would. Fill the radiator right to the top, over the vent & look for bubbles. She'll push some out as she warms, but shouldn't see compression bubbles. Let us know.
 
Guys I love these spirited discussions. I have the utmost respect for Mels and John advice. It is always top notch. Mel mentions a very good point not having to defend his position based on many yrs of dedicated service for which he is 100% correct. It is for that very same reason I give equal respect to Mr Farmer who has many yrs of experience with a product that has served his needs well. I can't disagree with either, Thanks, Rod.
 
For sure there's no bubbles from any of the Case diesels on this farm. I had a 830 irrigation engine that lost a hose and before the Murphy switch could shut it down a head cracked but thats it. The 1030 came here in 72 with a new block and new overhaul. Case apparently had line bore problems with some early 451 blocks and Case replaced them. This tractor was one of them. New engine. Cold as heck day just before freeze up in the fall when it was delivered. Wouldn't start off the truck. Pre heat, still no go. Waited a while, then a whiff of ether and it was running. The old wore out 500 is the best cold starter we've got followed by the 4 930 westerns.
 
My two cents. I also have found all starting fluid is not manufactured the same. Even in brands their is a difference. Some cans just a whiff will lock up a engine and another can you can use half a can and won't hardly start it. I worked for Modot for 29 years and we started using a system called quick start. It had a metered shot and a small discharge oriface in the intake manifold. That seemed to work pretty good for the operators not to overload the engine with starting fluid. With this said their is allot of variables when using starting fluid. It takes real caution when using.
 
Wow: I'm getting a little light headed. the air is getting heavy. Here is my opinion. I don't like ether injector nozzles mounted in intake manifolds, because most if it goes into only a couple of cylinders with small amount of air. If the ether is introduced at the earliest point where the intake air enters the tractor in minimal amounts. it has time to mix with the combustion air, and enter all cylinders in porportional amounts.
Now lets all put a hotdog on a stick, gather around the compuker campfire and see how many like them burned and crusty. Smile, we all were able to get vertical, and take nurishment today, and each of us is a day closer to the grave.
Personally I like my dogs browned with with djohney mustard and homemade relish on a buttered bun and a slice of cheese. HeHe
Loren
 
(quoted from post at 13:57:06 03/20/13) I like my dogs well done with cheese and a bit bbq sauce if you have it, thank you.

Jon f,

I could pbly like that combo myself, never tried em with bbq sauce!

mEl
 
They're best when the grill marks are diagonal, the
straight grill marks (either way) taste funny to me.
lol
 
(quoted from post at 16:17:12 03/20/13) They're best when the grill marks are diagonal, the
straight grill marks (either way) taste funny to me.
lol

Jon f,

Have you ever thot about writing a book, "The art of creative grilling"?

mEl
 
Ahhhhh to cold here for a campfire,,,,,,But I can see us all standing around the workbench at Rod's new shop with torch in the vise as i turn dog over it. Homemade tater-salad some slow-cooked "buckshot" in a crockpot. brew-skiees for you guys and cold coke for me. Wait ah minute ain't suppose solve the either issue??? Oh crap We can solve that over a dog........Loren you bring some of that "high dollar" mustard. Horserash and red onion hummmmmmmmmmm. Hee Hee
 
LOL, Funny you should say that. Some of my friends
on facebook have said I should write a book. I get
pretty creative over there sometimes. I'm far to
lazy to do that tho.
 

630,

I spose we could make a hot dog rotesserie out of a welding rod and a variable speed drill, maybe someone has still got an old forge they could bring to save on the acetylene. They usta mine soft coal here in Pa. Maybe I could find some of that for fuel.

mEl
 
Heck I'd settle for a big pile of pancakes drowning in that maple syrup someone we know can supply, Rod.
 
Or in TX chili and for all you folks from around the country, down here real chili doesn't have beans in it. (<:

I bet if we all got togther for a backyard cookout, between us and our better halves we could really whip up some good grub with influences from all over the US. Oh, and not to leave you all I see on here from time to time from the UK and Australia out, the world!

Jim
 

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