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Case Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

rant, its not a cummins engine !

Author  [Modern View]
jic

02-21-2013 14:55:26
66.103.107.4



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just tired of tring to convence people and dealers, thats its a CDC or CDC-CASE engine in case equipment. we case people know the real story, but nobody else does. i love to ask a jd guy with an older dodge ram if he knows that his engine is half CASE, pisses them off and they think i'm crazy (which i am) just wanted to let off some CASE steam! and by the way my name is jay gyger from lebanon, indiana use to be on this site few years a go.

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BarryfromIA

02-23-2013 08:02:26
67.55.176.78



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
FromUPDATE 1-Fiat, Cummins end engine joint venture

Newswire

(adds dateline, details, share price) MILAN, July 18 (Reuters) - Fiat has ended a diesel engine joint venture between its Iveco and CNH units and U.S. company Cummins , which began in 1996 with an investment of over $300 million, the companies said on Friday. As a result, Fiat's engine development division, Fiat PowerTrain, will take full control of the European Engine Alliance (EEA), in which Cummins had a one-third stake. In return, Cummins will take heavy plant maker CNH's 50 ... Wards Auto. You have to subscribe to read the whole article and it was dated July 18 2008. Iveco engines seem to look like a Cummins at least in a MX120. Barry

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Kevin B from Illinois

02-23-2013 06:28:25
74.95.24.153



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
One more point, its all a mute one, no more cummins in IHcase tractors.



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ss55

02-22-2013 21:27:24
173.31.19.80



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
Is this discussion is about the B-Series 3, 4 and 6 cylinder engines that are used in Dodge pickups, Case-IH equipment and now Case-New Holland tractors and equipment? If so, does anyone know if the engine was designed before or after the CDC joint venture was announced, and does anyone know who designed the engine?

The reason I ask is, in 1981 I worked for the company that designed and built the assembly line for that engine. The CDC name was on all the engine part drawings, and the CDC name also went on all the machine and tooling drawings we created. However, the assembly process engineers we worked with from CDC were all long time Cummins employees, none of the engineers we worked with were originally from J.I. Case or Tenneco. The assembly line went to the CDC Rocky Mountain plant in Whitaker, NC.

At the time I was under the impression that:
a. The engine was designed by Cummins engineers at another Cummins location (in Indiana?);
b. that Cummins operated the CDC plant;
and c. that J.I. Case contributed some of the capital and agreed to purchase some of the engines produced. That was my impression.

For the best sales and marketing advantage, the Cummins brand would have a lot better name recognition and reputation than either the new CDC name or the J.I. Case name. The White dealers likey preferred to call the CDC engines in some of their tractors "Cummins" engines rather than call them "Case" engines because Case was a direct competitor.

The B-Series engines may well be Case engines, but if they sell more units by by calling them "Cummins", it's in all the partner's best interest to call them "Cummins".

Did Cummins actually complete the planned 2008 buy out CNH 50% stake in CDC?

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pete 23

02-23-2013 14:47:30
74.47.40.242



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to ss55, 02-22-2013 21:27:24  
That is interesting that Cummins appeared to be the sole designer. The Case reps in Racine sure put out a different story. That being said, the next thing is that when you mention Cummins, every one is thinking of the larger Cummins that used the PT injection system. That is a whole and totally different style of engine so that was another subject of discussion. The CDC engine is more conventional in the fuel injection side being much the same as any Case, IH or Deere up until every one went with the common rail electronic controlled beasts we have seen in the last 15 years or so.

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ss55

02-23-2013 20:20:31
173.31.19.80



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to pete 23, 02-23-2013 14:47:30  
I can't say that Cummins was the sole designer of the CDC engine, it was my impression that Cummins was the primary designer of the engine. Case may have shared engine technology, contributed to the requirements specifications and probably sent Case engineers to be on the engine design team. I was involved in the assembly line equipment for CDC and I didn't meet anyone from Case at that time, only people from Cummins and former Cummins employees working for CDC.

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wilson ind

02-23-2013 07:20:41
70.239.85.123



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to ss55, 02-22-2013 21:27:24  
Been to north Carolina and most all southern stated, however had to go west to see the Rocky mtns.



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ss55

02-23-2013 19:04:26
173.31.19.80



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to wilson ind, 02-23-2013 07:20:41  
Sorry, that should have been Rocky Mount, NC.



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Case Nutty 1660

02-22-2013 11:54:33
75.127.24.27



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
I thought he was ranting about the CDC engine not being a Cummins only product nothing was said about the CaseIH merger that happened years after the CDC union and means nothing to this post



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bermuda ken

02-22-2013 06:33:22
50.50.17.146



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
I get tired of reading about and telling people that there is no such thing as a CASE MAGNUM tractor or CASE AXIAL FLOW combine.

The MAGNUM was a combination of IH (75%) and CASE (25%) designs. The AXIAL FLOW is all IH......NO CASE.



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Kevin B from Illinois

02-23-2013 06:23:24
74.95.24.153



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to bermuda ken, 02-22-2013 06:33:22  
Been saying that for years case never built anything after the early sixtys except a few tractors that did not sell that well either like the big 2 IH & JD, thank God for IH or there would be no caseIH.



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dflippin08

02-23-2013 16:03:22
64.50.248.116



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to Kevin B from Illinois, 02-23-2013 06:23:24  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

That's the whole truth and nothing but the truth!



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Kevin B from Illinois

02-23-2013 16:25:53
74.95.24.153



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to dflippin08, 02-23-2013 16:03:22  
THANK YOU!



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pete 23

02-22-2013 11:20:47
74.47.40.242



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to bermuda ken, 02-22-2013 06:33:22  
Have to agree on that. Even when I showed the Case boys the layout of the power train on a Magnum, they still would not believe it evolved from the IH side. And so it goes.



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jon f mn

02-22-2013 09:57:05
70.193.133.187



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to bermuda ken, 02-22-2013 06:33:22  
That's because IH bought case.



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bermuda ken

02-22-2013 10:52:55
50.50.17.146



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jon f mn, 02-22-2013 09:57:05  
Tenneco bought CASE and later they bought IH Ag.

The CASE 1660 combine from the 1960-70's is nothing like the "CASE" 1660 AXIAL FLOW combine.

How many times have you heard people talk about their CASE BOBCAT??? I LOL when I hear that....



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Case Nutty 1660

02-22-2013 10:30:52
75.127.24.27



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jon f mn, 02-22-2013 09:57:05  
??????????????????????????? WHAT?? LOL



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jon f mn

02-22-2013 11:55:39
70.193.73.231



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 02-22-2013 10:30:52  
Yeah, everybody knows that, I just wish they would have kept the behind the steerin wheel throttle. I only had 1 IH, a 1256 and I really miss monkey buttin that throttle.



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Ande

02-22-2013 05:46:53
66.231.103.186



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
Consolidated Engine Company



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shinnery

02-22-2013 02:28:56
74.84.13.145



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
Now Dodge is going to start putting a VM diesel in the half ton pick-ups. Jeep is already using them in Europe. They are part owned by Fiat also

Bryce.



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caseanonymous

02-21-2013 18:35:55
75.241.218.139



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
Its funny I deal with the same anti-case knotheads too! THey really like to argue. Until I pull out the case books and show them the proof. But still no respect for case. My gain I guess. Glad i'm not the only one!!



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pete 23

02-21-2013 18:17:56
74.47.40.242



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
I'm an IH man but I have tried for years to educate people that the original Magnum engines were a consolidated 50-50 arrangement with Case and Cummins. I haven't kept up on them lately so not sure when the switch to what ever it is now days in Magnums etc. Had a smart aaaa who knew everything come driving up to Deere shop when I worked there and I said, see you driving a Dodge with one of those Case engines. He didn't like that much and would not believe me anyway.

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pete 23

02-22-2013 11:15:11
74.47.40.242



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to pete 23, 02-21-2013 18:17:56  
Yup, I know that. But it was the Magnum that got all the publicity around our shop. First Case service training session I went to when Tenaco bought IH and merged them with Case, was about Case products and history.



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jic

02-21-2013 18:36:09
66.103.107.4



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to pete 23, 02-21-2013 18:17:56  
first Case tractors to get the CDC engine was the 1896 and 2096.



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RGMartin

02-21-2013 17:22:13
173.189.131.143



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
Fiat sold their share back to Cummins.



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1370rod

02-21-2013 17:17:59
75.121.140.114



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
Very few people knew that CDC or Consolidated Diesel Company was a 50-50 joint veture between Case and Cummins. With out a doubt Cummins gets all the recongnition for developing those engines. Does anyone know if that agreement is still in force after Fiat became the parent company?



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RGMartin

02-21-2013 16:52:52
173.189.131.143



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
Yeah lots of blank looks when I bring that up. JD guy teasing me for dragging wagons in to the elevator with a Case, He is driving a Dodge with a CDC... Like a stupid kid poking his grandfather with a sharp stick.

Same thing goes for the Ford guys not knowing the binder heritage of their diesel engines.
This post was edited by RGMartin at 16:53:14 02/21/13.



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Harvey 2

02-21-2013 16:45:29
74.128.149.135



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
You were at my place in south Indiana several years ago, I sold you a Case tractor and a garden tractor.
I hear you are selling some tractors. My email is open. Would you send a list of what you are selling and the price ? I might be interested in some.
I'm down here near Corydon.
This is for (jic)



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dflippin08

02-21-2013 16:33:34
64.50.248.116



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
What is the real story?



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dflippin08

02-21-2013 16:23:48
64.50.248.116



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
What is the real story?



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Adirondack case guy

02-21-2013 17:31:31
74.69.160.79



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to dflippin08, 02-21-2013 16:23:48  
This is a post merger brosure about CDC engines. You can totally cross IH out of the senario. Read the top paragraph about the merger of Case and Cummins. I was fortunate to the go to the plant and introduction back in 82, and the intro to the 96 series. Our Case TM had to meet a quota for orders for 18-2096's We filled in his gap, and got the trip to the plant. We wrote orders for more than a dozen tractors, but as our TM said we would be lucky to see a third of them be delivered to our dealership, and he was wright.
Loren

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Adirondack case guy

02-22-2013 05:40:59
74.69.160.79



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to Adirondack case guy, 02-21-2013 17:31:31  

Info Didn't post earler.
Loren



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Bob

02-22-2013 08:54:17
64.255.159.192



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to Adirondack case guy, 02-22-2013 05:40:59  
From the ad above...

"In 1980 CaseIH and Cummins Engine Company pooled their resources"...

From "A History of CaseIH"...

"In 1984, Tenneco Case took control of International Harvester"s agricultural division. They changed their brand name to Case International at first, and then abbreviated that to Case IH."



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Adirondack case guy

02-22-2013 10:03:08
74.69.160.79



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to Bob, 02-22-2013 08:54:17  
You are corect with 1980 being the date the agreement was completed, between Case and Cummins, no IH then. The 96 series tractors had the first of the CDC engine in them. They we debuted in 82. two years before the Case IH merger.
Loren



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Case Nutty 1660

02-21-2013 15:36:59
75.127.24.27



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to jic, 02-21-2013 14:55:26  
Agree completely with you on that, they took the best of the two engine designs and the CDC was the result, the first few Dodge pick up I seen with them had Case on the ID tag also cnt



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Agri King

02-21-2013 17:05:00
216.222.183.148



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 02-21-2013 15:36:59  
Tom Really? I would like to see a pic of the engine tag.



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Case Nutty 1660

02-21-2013 17:41:47
75.127.24.27



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to Agri King, 02-21-2013 17:05:00  
guy I worked with bought the first one in town when they came out had it on the tag I seen, it had Case CDC and Cummins all on the same tag, maybe it was just on the first production run the MX120 I sold new had Case on the engine tag as well and I think every 4 cylinder I have seen in backhoes skid steers all say Case along with CDC hope my mind isn't slippin a cog again and I seen all this in a different life LOL

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dflippin08

02-21-2013 16:44:02
64.50.248.116



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 Re: rant, its not a cummins engine ! in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 02-21-2013 15:36:59  
Aren't they all Rudolph Diesel's?



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