Author	[Modern View]
Case Nutty 1660 10-15-2012 12:48:07 75.127.24.27 Report to Moderator	well had to get my "Extended Reach" "DC" with the Duncan loader out today to use on the building job cnt [Reply]   [No Email]
JimEvans 10-18-2012 16:39:01 66.185.0.208 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-15-2012 12:48:07   I am pretty sure the axle wont break while using it for that purpose. You will be moving slowly and taking it easy. The dynamic loads from driving it in a plowed field (even without a loader) would be much higher than the static loads of the loader with a man-basket on it. It is also still much safer than trying to do that work with a ladder. I hate ladders. [Reply]  [No Email]
Duner Wi 10-16-2012 10:25:30 216.226.80.242 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-15-2012 12:48:07   I am in awe of the engineering. Look at this http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-DUNCAN-HYDRAULIC-FRONT-END-LOADER-AD-COLUMBUS-NE-/270722122355 [Reply]  [No Email]
Dutchman 10-16-2012 08:32:41 69.66.113.248 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-15-2012 12:48:07   Tom , DON'T let .. 1 or 2 . STOP the pictures .. If you look at ANYTHING that's got some AGE to it , you can find FAULTS .. some don't have shields , others just are wide open , etc ... I think you know what I'm trying to say ... For those that DON'T KNOW HOW to used such equipment ... LEAVE it for ALONG ... for others .. enjoy it and becareful ... I HOPE you FORGET the idiots .. and KEEP POSTING ... { for any other reason , JUST to Pi** them off } I could go on ... but I made this looong enough , just my thoughts if that matters .... friend from Ia... mark [Reply]  [No Email]
Ande 10-16-2012 05:21:51 66.231.103.186 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-15-2012 12:48:07   Tom,I think this thing should be in the Guinness Book of World Records. Every time you post a pic of her you get comments [Reply]  [No Email]
Case Nutty 1660 10-16-2012 05:42:01 75.127.24.27 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Ande, 10-16-2012 05:21:51   Dan from the so all knowing comment below this will be the last time I post a pic of her in action, one thing he does not know is this tractor has very few hours on it, yes it has sway thought I made that very clear, no I do not recomend any one using one for safetys sake, but you know what I use what I have and have well over 40 years of use of equipment and doing it as safe as possible and thank GOD I have never hurt any one doing it, I have worked with my educated people who "think" they know it all but some fall short, lets just say I have to rethink things I will be posting in the future, may just be time for me to go into retirement so to speak, OK my rant is done, I do appreciate advise but to condem my equipmet and knowlage is a bit much for me to swallow today [Reply]  [No Email]
Nathan (SD) 10-17-2012 22:50:50 75.102.183.211 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-16-2012 05:42:01   You all have witnessed the tool professional engineers use best. Their mouth. They can take the simplest task and over-complicate it to the point of confusion. The not so mechanically inclined, after listening way too long, decide that it is too confusing to understand and pay those guys to think for them. [Reply]  [No Email]
John Saeli 10-15-2012 18:15:34 66.66.16.240 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-15-2012 12:48:07   You call that a Duncan Loader, but it sure looks homemade to me!! OSHA approved?? [Reply]  [No Email]
Case Nutty 1660 10-15-2012 18:53:56 75.127.24.27 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to John Saeli, 10-15-2012 18:15:34   John the "Duncan" was made in Columbus Nebraska and all of it is factory except the basket and a few farmers repairs on the grapple boom that mounts on to the loader main frame, I will take some pics of the grapple and the 12' hay head with push off I have for it, and mo OHSA or MSHA would not approve, there was a Depuity Sherriff driving by today when we were moving and his eyes were big to say the least LOL, she has some sway in the linkage which amounts to 3-4 feet at the basket of side play but as long as you do not turn to qick jerk or stop on the brakes while turning she does well, I was thinking today I will install a set of duals on her for more stability and remove the CC from the tires and add 5-7 sets of weights instead cnt [Reply]  [No Email]
Adirondack case guy 10-15-2012 18:47:29 74.69.160.79 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to John Saeli, 10-15-2012 18:15:34   John, All those gussets and truss rods would dumfound any OSHA inspector. The only problem that bro. might have is an up-to-date "manlift certificate", to operate that thing. Loren [Reply]  [No Email]
Gary from Iowa 10-15-2012 17:55:53 174.30.127.241 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-15-2012 12:48:07   Case Nutty 1660 - I don't know why, but I get nervous every time you post a picture of that loader being used. I know it must be safe, but just looking at it makes me wonder if the engineers who design it might have had more than grape juice the night before they design it. It does look handy. Keep those pictures coming. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron Sa 10-16-2012 05:21:30 75.106.112.105 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Gary from Iowa, 10-15-2012 17:55:53   Gary, Your nervous instinct is a good one but not your assumption that it is safe. I am a professional Engineer. The builders of that loader must have been shade tree mechanics having a hack saw, cutting torch, and a welder. They probably got most of any engineering expertise from playing with an erector set when growing up. One look at the rig and several shortcomings are noticeable. For starters, IT IS INADEQUATELY BRACED TO RESIST SWAY. We all know that the main reason that hanging meat can roll a truck over onto its side is because the load can sway to the side. When a load is allowed to easily sway sideways, it creates a tipping force tending to roll the tractor and loader onto its side. That fact is not rocket science. The higher the load is off the ground the greater the side tipping dangers. When up high, a strong gust of wind could suddenly sway the basket and snowball the tip over sequence. With the basket down low, there is not much tip over danger like shown in the roof fixing picture. To prevent sway, the rig badly needs torque tubes across the two vertical links that come up from the tractor’s rear axle. To prevent sway, it badly needs more X braces and torque tubes across the structures that pivot and move up and down. Secondly, the tractor’s rear wheels are DISHED IN and thus the gage is in its narrow range. We all know the tipping tendencies and dangers of narrow gage tractors. We all know that the front axle offers no side tipping resistance until it reaches its stops. My three DCs with this exact same adjustable wide front have no tipping stops on the front axle. SETTING THE REAR WHEELS AT MAX WIDTH and adding more weight to the rear would reduce the danger a great deal. Fluid in the tires is a start and may have saved the day so far. Third, the Case adjustable wide front axle has a weakness that is dangerous for loader applications. This summer, I snatched my third DC adjustable wide front axle from the junkman and rebuilt it. LOAD ON THE FRONT WHEELS PUTS A BENDING FORCE INTO THE VERTICAL SHAFT THAT THE STEERING ARM ATTACHES TO. This vertical shaft is NOT heat treated and is thus steel in its weakest form. It is too small in diameter for loader use. If the shaft is original, it has experienced about 60 years of fatigue. This rig may have a shaft that is both weak and tired. IF THIS SHAFT WERE TO SNAP, HERE IS WHAT WOULD MOSTLY ASSUREDLY HAPPEN. First, the basket would suddenly and quickly drop about 3 or 4 feet until the loader frame contacts the front axle beam. Second, the whole rig would then pitch forward as the basket stops and the basket’s occupant severely collides with the basket. Third, spring back will happen causing the basket to heave its occupant upward like on a trampoline but minus the fun. Fourth, the occupant will free fall back down somewhere in the vicinity of the basket perhaps straddling a safety rail on the basket. Fifth, someone will call 911. [Reply]  [No Email]
Nathan (SD) 10-17-2012 22:49:35 75.102.183.211 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Ron Sa, 10-16-2012 05:21:30   Yes you have proven you are a engineer. Does any other profession type this much to say so little? [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron Sa 10-18-2012 06:12:13 75.106.112.105 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Nathan (SD), 10-17-2012 22:49:35   YES--for two examples NEWSPAPER EDITORS--My latest newspaper has 40 pages. BOOK AUTHORS--The last 5 books that I have read the past three winters each had from 200 to 700 pages. Have you notices that only a few library books have less that 200 pages? Did you know that newspapers are written on the 6th grade level? I study and analyze on college level. I write on the high school level. Should I write on newspaper level? I'm not inferring anything. Just asking questions that might help me communicate better. I accept coaching. Got any CONSTRUCTIVE input? [Reply]  [No Email]
Nathan (SD) 10-18-2012 08:31:05 75.102.183.211 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Ron Sa, 10-18-2012 06:12:13   Constructive input? Not really, but it can't be any less constructive than yours. A strong gust of wind tipping the tractor over? Come on man, get real. There aint nothing there to catch wind even at full reach. These loaders were designed to work at full lift for stacking hay. It probably came with a 8ft possibly even 12 ft hay sweep that held 500 lbs or more of hay. Now granted the reach has been extended but the load is still narrowly centered. This load is well within its design parameters weight wise. 4000 lb tractor ballasting a less than 1000 lb load is safe enough for me, maybe not you, but it boils down to personal preference. This machine is no more dangerous than any other when used by a mindful operator that is aware of what he is doing. Now the part about what would assuredly happen when one part of that large maze of Erector set pieces lets loose. Come on man. Maybe some posters on here remember a article in Successful Farming magazine 10-15 years back about some farmers that built their own self propelled spray rig for their own use. Next month a engineer from one of the equipment mfg companies pointed out how unsafe and how unmarketable the machine was. No where in the original article was the words sales or distribution mentioned. You, like him are just trying to help. In reality it is falling on deaf ears. You are right about one thing, writing on a sixth grade level would help the rest of us. The newspapers aren't doing it by accident. My education has come from hard knocks, but I can see through over exagerated, smart talk no matter what level it is written at. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron Sa 10-19-2012 06:25:29 75.106.112.105 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Nathan (SD), 10-18-2012 08:31:05   Thanks for replying with some substance rather than being 99% “shoot the messenger” as all the other replies, referring to me, have been. “Shoot the messenger” is a pathetic tactic and causes me no loss of sleep. My warning about a hidden danger was intended to be constructive. If this safety issue is heeded in even a small way, it will be constructive. What is your measuring stick for measuring my constructiveness? The gust of wind does not tip the loader over and the match does not burn down the forest. Both only set things in motion that cause a snowball effect. Do you wish me to try to explain the snowball effect? On Ebay, someone is offering an advertisement brochure of a Duncan loader stacking hay. The base arms of that loader in the advertisement are of a much different design and has much greater sway resistance. Did Duncan keep the rickety loader in production or have we been looking at “one of a kind”? Most all industrial loaders put the rigid axle in front and the pivot axle in back. Thus the loader shifts load to the stable axle and off the pivot axle. The pivot axle provides ZERO tip over stability until the the stops come into contact. Stops are generally ineffective when the loader is up high. Therefore, farm tractors are inherently poor loader bases at best. A farm tractor with a weak front axle is doubly poor foundation for a loader. Because there are no tip-over stops on the DC AWF front axle, this DC is triple poor for loader application. When one installs a rickety loader onto a triple poor foundation, its an accident looking for a place to happen. Cnt has indicated that he knows about the low resistance to sway. That’s good. Maybe he also knows that the resistance to sway gets even lower as the loader is raised. He offered no indication of knowing about this variable characteristic. The hyd cylinders offer no resistance to sway. Down low, two of the four posts are like stilts and the other two partially brace the two stilts against sway. As the loader raises, the two brace posts move toward becoming stilts also. Try putting the palm of your hand on four vertical pencils spaced apart and then rotate and move your palm. How much sway resistance did you feel? No, the two brace post do not become pure stilts. They stop at about two thirds stilt and one third brace. Less bracing up high means more swaying up high. If cnt is aware of this decreased resistance to sway up high, that is good. The number one killer of wise, caution people is unawareness. On U-tube, a loader is shown carrying a load and the front axle experiences a sudden drop-off. The loader's rebound heaves the load UP COMPLETELY OFF THE FORKS. At Cat, we did computer simulations of this action. Therefore I am NOT just making this up about what could happen to a person in the basket. I really tried to write this on newspaper level. Probably flunked. [Reply]  [No Email]
Case Nutty 1660 10-19-2012 08:52:58 75.127.24.27 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Ron Sa, 10-19-2012 06:25:29   tell you a little story Mr Pro enginneer, I was offered a job with CAT to head up their R&D testing department( back about 1995) so maybe that alone qualify's me to know some thing about running equipment and doing it in a safe manner, let me ask you how many years have you operatorated equipment? how many machine hrs in real work conditions do you have? I have 45 years under my belt in every thing from farm to oilfield to construction in things from a skid steer to 637 scrapers/ D-9 crawlers /988 loaders and lots of every thing in between and have logged millons of miles driving semi trucks in some of the most adverse conditions know here in Wyo, and knock on wood I have never upset any thing other than tipping a skid steer on its nose once, do not lecture me on how bright you are on things any idot knows that my "DC" with the Duncan loader will tip over, heck I can take a 992 Cat loader and flop it over doing some thing stupid very easy, my point is do not judge me unless you come and see how I do operate, I do appeciate the warnings and yes I agree you have some valid points, but quit running down some thing you have never used calling my loader rickkity is a slam to me at best, YES it has sway YES it was built in the 40's but that does not mean it does not serve me well even know for things I chose to use it safely for, I post these pics because I think some people enjoy them and because I am proud of the equipment I have and still am able to useif you think it's junk thats OK it's your opinion I sure as heck did ot ask you to get in the basket, during my years with Case and running much CAT as well as other brand equipment I have spent time with design people that said a lot of the things you say some very valid some not so much but they were all opinions none the same, go ahead give advise fine by me but when you start talking down to me and some thing I have it will tend to pssss me off, just so you know cnt [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron Sa 10-22-2012 04:58:22 75.106.112.105 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-19-2012 08:52:58   You ask me some questions. Quoting you “let me ask you how many years have you operatorated equipment? how many machine hrs in real work conditions do you have? I have 45 years under my belt in every thing from farm to oilfield to construction in things from a skid steer to 637 scrapers/ D-9 crawlers /988 loaders and lots of every thing in between and have logged millons of miles driving semi trucks in some of the most adverse conditions know here in Wyo,” [My answers: 64 years—age 9 to now I’m 73. At age 9, I started driving dad’s DoAll similar to the one in the pic. A jillion hours operating farm equipment most of the 64 years. Currently, I have wheat to plant if the rain will stop. A few hours running a dozen different Cat products. Trucks--- I drove a water truck down a lot of Kansas back-roads in the late 50s. I had a farm semi hay truck in the early 60s encountering unbelievable, off- the- path hay barns. Since retiring from Cat, I still farm for myself, work for other farmers, help with driving or co-driving six different semis similar to the one in the pic I took of offloading in Arizona. Have jakebraked thru the hills of Penn. Fought Chicago traffic. Encountered sharp hairpins at 2AM in eastern Okla. Been to northern Idaho thru Wyoming. Been to northern Wisconsin and southern Texas. Been to New Jersey and Arizona and a lot loads to places in between. Our fleet delivered 101 loads of relief supplies from central Illinois to New Orleans during Katrina. I pull a gooseneck trailer with my pickup. I have driven school buses.] [Reply]  [No Email]
Ande 10-17-2012 05:39:51 66.231.103.186 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Ron Sa, 10-16-2012 05:21:30   Ron,I think you mean well but,do you actually think someone is going to read what you wrote and adhere to it? To me its like the safety tags on a "A6" combine,and they are metal,but honestly Ron I have never read them,and I bet few have. Also I think you have letter tractors,do you use them?? If so how do you dare with all the safety issues with them? ie.. belt pulley? Shouldnt that be shielded? Do you have ROPS on them? Please respond to these issues you have,and how you have corrected them [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron Sa 10-20-2012 03:24:32 75.106.112.105 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Ande, 10-17-2012 05:39:51   Maybe—Yes—Carefully—No—No— You indicate you will likely not read my response yet you have ask some questions. Maybe others readers are interested-- so here is my shoooort respoooonse. LOL To anyone who is interested, we all know the following three TYPES of dangers around machinery. 1. Dangers created by the machine that are GLARINGLY OBVIOUS to most. 2. Dangers created by the machine that are HIDDEN i.e. NOT OBVIOUS to most. 3. Dangers created by CARELESS OPERATORS and not created by the machine. Also keep in mind that machinery can only be dangerous to humans. Machinery can be damaging to “stuff” but not dangerous to “stuff”. For example, a loader might drop and damage bags of seed but there is no way a loader can be dangerous to bags of seed. Therefore a rickety loader used only for handling “stuff”, with no humans near it except the operator, would probably not need to be labeled as dangerous. However, being equipped with a man-lift basket might put the loader into the dangerous category because then the person in the man-lift might be put in serious danger. Most of the dangers associated with machinery are GLARINGLY OBVIOUS. Thus, most warning tags need not be read and few guards are needed. My DCs need no metal guard on the belt pulley because of the fact that this danger is GLARINGLY OBVIOUS. Also, I have no need to be close to any moving belt driven by the belt pulley. These two facts adequately guard me from belt pulley dangers. Regarding a ROPS, this device is mainly for the purpose of protecting CARELESS OPERATORS. My DCs do not need a ROPS because I am a careful operator and because my DCs have NO BUILT-IN HIDDED DANGERS that would cause a DC to suddenly tip over on level ground. Farm tractors do not cause rollovers. Carless operators cause rollovers. Also certain attachments can cause surprise rollovers such as loaders. No attachments are mounted on my DCs. ROPS on farm tractors are for protecting idiots drivers and also the “10 year old novice”. Some industrial vehicles, such as bull dozers, are expected to operate near their rollover angle and thus a ROPS has value to even the careful operator. ROPS on high powered pulling tractors has value because of instability. REGARDING MY COMMENTS ABOUT THE DUNCAN LOADER having a man-lift basket, I think the loader has type 2 dangers (HIDDED i.e NOT OBVIOUS). Hidden dangers tend to only show their ugly face when certain circumstances are present. If the added extension was used only to handle “stuff”, I would remove my danger label because, as I stated above, “stuff” cannot be endangered but people can. IS THIS DUNCAN LOADER DANGEROUS TO THE TRACTOR DRIVER? There are degrees of danger. If tipped, the rig will only tip sideways 90 degrees and not roll upside down. Therefore, the driver would probably only suffer minor injuries. This low level of danger to the tractor driver if handling only “stuff” would not have merited a post. [Reply]  [No Email]
Lazy WP 10-16-2012 07:44:07 184.21.113.212 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Ron Sa, 10-16-2012 05:21:30   I am sure glad that there are professional engineers out there. Because someone has to explain how something has worked so well for 50 years, can be SO dangerous!!! If people would go back to using common sense, instead of being SUE happy, America wouldn"t be in the shape it is. CNT, has been using and posting pictures of his tractor for as long as I have been on this board. I hope he continues to do so, but AZZ"s like you tend to discourage doing so. [Reply]  [No Email]
Ron Sa 10-18-2012 06:46:18 75.106.112.105 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Lazy WP, 10-16-2012 07:44:07   As I remember, farming during the post war era was listed as the world’s most dangerous occupation. Generally speaking, farmers are NOT stupid, NOT void of common sense, and NOT careless. This then begs the question-- Why was farming listed as the most dangerous occupation? If we rule out stupidity, rule out failing to use common sense, and rule out carelessness, that leaves DANGEROUS EQUIPMENT high on the list of reasons that farmers got killed or injured. Equipment had obvious dangers that we were aware of and thus kept clear of. But what about the equipment’s hidden dangers that could surprise us-- jump out and grab if certain circumstances were present? Was it the UNAWARENESS FACTOR that got farmers killed or injured? THE NUMBER ONE KILLER of healthy, smart, intelligent, careful, cautious, wise, competent, strong, hardworking, wise, and generally lucky people (including farmers) IS UNAWARENESS. [Reply]  [No Email]
Dutchman 10-15-2012 15:35:09 69.66.113.248 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-15-2012 12:48:07   That sure beats trying to do it from the ladder ... Do you climb in with a ladder ?? Or does someone help ? I think of ALL the places around here I could used something like that .. O-WILL .. that's another day .. BECAREFUL .... mark [Reply]  [No Email]
Case Nutty 1660 10-15-2012 15:39:29 75.127.24.27 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Dutchman, 10-15-2012 15:35:09   Mark, my cousin that helps me hay is the one in the basket, as to getting in it lowers right down to the ground so you just step in, this was a job that took two for sure, I would sure let you use it if we were closer, be like Loren "borrowering" it LOL cnt tom [Reply]  [No Email]
Dutchman 10-15-2012 16:34:17 69.66.113.248 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Case Nutty 1660, 10-15-2012 15:39:29   Will if Loren is borrowing it ..lol .. he can stop and vist and do some of my Hi stuff ..lol mark [Reply]  [No Email]
Adirondack case guy 10-15-2012 18:39:24 74.69.160.79 Report to Moderator	Re: DC at work in reply to Dutchman, 10-15-2012 16:34:17   Well Mark; I would love to come to your place and work on your projects, but the transportation expences for the DC and me would be on Bro's Cash card. LOL. I would love to become a "Construction Troubadour" on those terms. Food, Lodging, Beer, and travel expences:--- I'm for hire. LOL Loren [Reply]  [No Email]