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Allis Chalmers Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow?

Author 
Bones Magoo

03-09-2005 08:34:59
64.136.27.229



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What kind of problems might I run into useing my WD45 to pull a 3 bottom 16" (3x16) moldboard plow? The plow has trip beams and is three point hitch.

The ground I would like to plow is basically sod, been in pasture for quite a while. I think the ground is pretty rich soil, that is to say, not real sandy.

My WD45 to my knowledge has never been rebuilt, but it runs good and carries good oil pressure, without burning any oil. I have the 3 Pt Conversion that mounts on the stock snap coupler drawbar.

Should I have the hydraulic pump adjusted for traction booster? Or No? Do I need to have a float position within my 3 Pt controls?

Would I be better off with a snap-coupler plow?

Any and all advice is welcome, perhaps you can tell, I"m a novice with moldboard plows.

Good Day!

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Linus

09-08-2005 14:33:29
69.223.90.153



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
We used chains on the lift arms to the platform so the plow or whatever could only go so low. It worked great.



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Tom Yaz

03-10-2005 09:28:24
209.11.224.43



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
I pulled a 3x16 snap coupler with my WD45--It could get rough going in less than optimal plowing conditions. Went in second gear. If it was at my place I would not use a 3pt 3x16 based on my opinion:

Although I might get SOME traction boost, I cannot see how the pulling would occur from the bell exclusively as required to get the full TB.



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Bones Magoo

03-10-2005 07:12:40
64.136.27.229



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
Just wanted to take a moment and say thanks for all those who helped by contributing their thoughts and ideas.

Just to clarify a few things, my 3 Pt Conversion I believe is the Cross Mfg. heavy duty type. There is a T-bracket that mounts to the original drawbar attatched in the snap coupler bell. The drawbar itself is supported by a bail that bolts to the underside of the rearend housing thru L-brackets. The lower Tug Arms of the 3 Pt Conversion attatch to the T-bracket on the drawbar.

I currently have the pump adjusted for traction booster - I remember doing some field leveling work with a 7' box blade and with the box full, I could hear the hydraulics working (without my touching the controls) and the front end even came up a couple times. So, I think it is possible to get traction boost thru 3 Pt hitch.

My worry is that with my current set up, I don't seem to have draft or position control of the three point arms - and I think this is something I'd definitely need when plowing with a 3 Pt full mounted plow. The plow is not mine, but I've been given access to it and it's just sitting there not being used otherwise. It does have a guage wheel on the rear, so that would control how deep I plow at the rear of the plow, but I'm not sure how I'd control the depth of the front of the plow? Would traction booster help to maintain a constant depth? The ground is not exactly flat, and I don't want to be constantly messing with the hydraulic control lever in an effort to plow at a constant depth. I have visions of the plow going shallow - deep - shallow - deep, and the field looking like H when I'm done.

One other point. I have 14.9 wide rubber on my WD45. Most of the snap coupler plows I see are 14" bottoms. Am I going to have problems trying to run my right drive wheel in a furrow that would be too narrow? Were there many 3x16 snap coupler plows made?

Again, thanks for all of your input! Anything else you like to add, please feel free!

Good Day!

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Sid

03-10-2005 20:47:43
12.156.150.166



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-10-2005 07:12:40  
I have only used pull type plows. I understand in reading AC manuals and talking to those who have used AC mounted plows the depth of plowing was set by adjustment in the plow itself. And that the traction booster had a little to do with maintaining plowing depth.



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mj

03-09-2005 22:05:18
4.225.196.240



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
In the clay hills of West Central Illinois we used 2 different WD-45s with the 'D17' kits installed (dynoed at 51 and 53 hp) to pull A-C snap coupler 3-14 plows in any condition (sod, top-froze, stubble, etc.) in THIRD gear and up against the governor. Pulling an 8' disc in 3rd resulted in a lot of wheelspin in cloddy, plowed ground unless dualed-up, then it was 'Katie-bar-the-door'.....good tractors!

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wolfmantractor

03-09-2005 17:49:10
207.255.118.87



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
You don't have to adjust hydraulic pump, but you DO need to set it for Traction control (as opposed to hold control for like a loader). Directions to set the TC or Traction Booster Control are on the large decal on right side of battery box. Takes about a half a minute. Turn (with fingers-no tools needed) set screw C out of body & set screw A into.... etc. Kind of like directions for pouring kiss out of a boot-directions on the bottom of the heel. Oh yes- a 3-pt plow if hooked to a good snap coupler 3-pt conversion will work fine. Only possible drawback-if your top link isn't attached low enough, plow won't lift high enough. But plow it will. Spent many hours on a 45 with 14.9's filled, 2 pair weights on rear wheels, one pair hanging on front frame rails, snap coupler 3-pt converter & 3-14's. Had a 3-bottom Oliver & a 3-bottom Int 309. What a plowing rig.

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BushogPapa

03-09-2005 16:47:47
64.12.116.196



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
Well, you DO know that you must have a well scoured plow, to get it to pull properly, and any 3 or 4 bittom plow pulls like an anchor if it is not shiney as NEW chrome....!!

Dad and I have 4-14"s--semi-mounted..his came NEW with it, and NEVER has it seen any ground it will not pull it in--in 2nd gear. (Except for DRY Black-Jack that breaks the coverboards off)..!! We have some "Yellow Wax" here in Ohio, and I defy anyone to find any Harder ground to plow... Turning alfalfa sod is not a problem, although you can actually feel the roots being pulled...!!! You MUST have ALL 4 tires Loaded as full as you can get them, and then put another 100 lbs on the front--if it is a narrow-front... Like I said, even if the plow is shiney to start with, it will take a few rounds to get it "Scoured"..and then it will pull easier... I have a 3-Point conversion I use for a 3-point Woods and blade, --it hooks into the snapcoupler, and would work the Traction-Booster,what kind do you have..?? Setting the plow up to pull right takes some time... Coulter and rear Heel settings are most important settings..the rest asr pretty easy.. Be sure to have Mouldboard extensions and coverboards, to cover sod and trash better..!! These WD-45's have so much torque, that they really "Bear-Down" on a load... I never liked a 3-14...I needed to run in 3rd gear, to even have the governors working...and then, I was using More fuel per acre than the 4-14 did per acre.... Yes, we plow 7" deep any and everywhere..!! Have some fun..you WILL need to steer with the brakes in tough spots....!!! Once it is scoured good, you should be in 2nd gear and running fine...

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Bill(Wis)

03-09-2005 16:29:53
167.206.48.253



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
I don't know what sort of 3 pt hitch you have but the one I have pulls from, and in fact, attaches to the conventional drawbar. It pulls from exactly the same point (lower) as the snap coupler or, for that matter, the old AC non-snap coupler mounted plow did. Why wouldn't the traction boost work? Just a question - my 49 WD doesn't have traction boost.



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BushogPapa

03-09-2005 16:54:57
64.12.116.196



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bill(Wis), 03-09-2005 16:29:53  
If your WD has hydrolics, it has a "Traction Booster"...it just didn't come with a gauge..!!! Once you are used to it, you don't need the gauge...when the tires start to slip too much, just slightly raise the Hydrolic lever a bit..not enough to raise the front end, just enough to get more traction.. The setting varies with ground conditions, and how much the shears are worn.. With real GOOD traction, you may have the lever all the way down, and still have the front raise an inch or 3..!! I had to remove all the spacer washers from the cover for the MAIN Hitch Spring, to help keep the front down, with the 4-14"..

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Bill(Wis)

03-09-2005 17:42:21
167.206.48.253



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to BushogPapa, 03-09-2005 16:54:57  
OK. But the question seemed to be, in fact a flat out statement was made, that the traction booster would not work with an add on 3 pt hitch. My question was, "why wouldn't it work"? The three point hitch I have bolts firmly to the drawbar which has been released from the attach points on the rear footstep mount. The drawbar is free to move up and down and essentially becomes the same thing as the long attach arm of the AC plow. The tractor drawbar had to be removed in order to hitch the AC plow up so I guess you could say the long attach arm of the plow became the drawbar. At any rate, it all pulls from the same point. So where is the difference that eliminates so called traction boost? Also, do you folks know that you have to remove the PTO shaft to hook up a plow?

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John (MO)

03-10-2005 06:20:41
198.209.172.95



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bill(Wis), 03-09-2005 17:42:21  
A snap coupler plow, pulled 100% from the snap coupler bell. That is also where the traction boost took it"s direction from (through the control of course). With many 3 point conversions the pull does not come 100% from the bell, a lot of other things take small parts of the pull. The drawbar bail sometimes get part of it, the top link gets part of it depending on where and how it is attached, and the original AC lift arms sometimes get a % of the pull. The original AC wishbone type conversion that replaced the drawbar and that had the top link coming off of it rather than some other place on the tractor, is the only 3 point conversion that I think will allow the traction boost system to work exactly like on a snap coupler plow. In my opinion this really isn"t the best 3 point conversion for most things, but it is the one that allows the traction boost to work best.

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wolfmantractor

03-09-2005 18:00:03
207.255.118.87



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bill(Wis), 03-09-2005 17:42:21  
On the old WD's you did, but not on the 45's.



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BushogPapa

03-09-2005 17:56:44
64.12.116.196



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bill(Wis), 03-09-2005 17:42:21  
If it still pulls from the same Snap-Coupler attaching point, it WILL still have "Traction Booster"...

Some after-marker 3-point set-ups bolt on with a pile of brackets, and don't use the original Slap-Coupler connection..

Ron.



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Butch(OH)

03-09-2005 14:46:05
24.210.85.239



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
I will go a bit futher than the other posters and say scrap the 3 point plow idea. A 3 point mounted plow requires both position and draft control to operate properly, that is drop it at the end of a field and have it plow at an even dpeth. Thats not to say you couldn"t turn over a garden plot by constantly fooling with the lift lever but it would not be my idea of fun plowing up an old pasture. Get a snap coupler plow or a pull type, if you have no fluid or weights get a two bottom, you"ll not be lacking for power but traction. When weighted and equipped with a properly adjusted Snap Coupler plow a 45 is good for 3=16" anywhere except across your driveway. In stubble it will pull 4-14 in 2nd except in very heavy soils. As one of the other posters said, been debated for years but the doubters may watch one in action at the Jamboree show in N Illinois every summer. Tractor goes on the dyno, 45HP then on to a #64 plow and into wheat stubble in late July. Heavy dark Illnois clay, 8" deep, 2nd gear and uphill to boot.

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BushogPapa

03-09-2005 16:57:25
64.12.116.196



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Butch(OH), 03-09-2005 14:46:05  
Would the "3-Point" plow need a "Gage-Wheel" then..??? If it was used on a WD or WD-45 with a conversion 3-Point..??



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Texas Denny

03-09-2005 14:26:26
66.68.15.150



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
I think it has been pointed out adequately. With a three point conversion, there will be no traction booster. We had a neighbor when I was a kid who had a WD-45 gas that he used with an Oliver 3-16 pull type plow. He pulled in second gear and had no problems. Since he used a pull type, there wasn't much traction booster there either. However, the hitch angle added a lot of traction to the rear.

Your soil might be tougher than southern Minnesota black or it might be lighter. Give it a try. I do believe you'd be better off with an Allis snap coupler plow or a pull type than a three point conversion type setup. But, it might work. Won't know till you try it.

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wolfmantractor

03-09-2005 17:36:37
207.255.118.87



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Texas Denny, 03-09-2005 14:26:26  
If the 3-pt conversion is a good one, you'll have the traction booster: i.e. if the conversion attaches to the snap coupler bell or to the drawbar that goes to the bell. You WILL have to loosen the drawbar bail (under the PTO shaft) for the TB to work. Don't forget to set hydraulic pump for Traction Control. In front of battery box: Turn set screw C out of body & set screw A into body & hold your left ear with your right hand. Directions are on the big decal on the side of the battery box.

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Tom in Michigan

03-09-2005 13:08:27
207.74.178.112



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
Bones, On our farm we plow with 3-14's snap coupler on the gas or on the diesel. Traction booster is a must on these lighter tractors. Weight the front end down if necessary to maintain steering control and stability. I have taken off the back bottom in alfalfa sod and real tough clay. When I see pictures of 4-14's behind a '45 I have always been skeptical of the performance. As mentioned in previous posts, after market 3-point hitches do not allow the traction booster to function. Tom

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Dave in Mo

03-09-2005 09:58:57
130.76.96.19



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
I have a conversion hitch on my WD. That being said, the traction booster feature is by-passed since there is no lower link. I simply added an adjustable chain-and-keyhole arrangement to establish the correct plow depth since it will dig as deep as I let it. With grassy fields you'll probably need a plow with coulters on it to slice the sod ahead of the shares.



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John (MO)

03-09-2005 09:09:37
198.209.172.95



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 Re: WD45 pull a 3 bottom plow? in reply to Bones Magoo, 03-09-2005 08:34:59  
There is a 50 year old discussion about WD45"s being a 3 or 4 plow tractor. It"s never been settled because soil can be so much different from one place to another. Besides a 3x16 plow cuts 48" just like a 4x12 does. Then there is the question of how much HP any particular WD45 is putting out. Is that the same as when it was new, 50 years ago, or is it maybe not quite as strong as it was 50 years ago. Maybe it"s been overhauled and tuned and even making a lot more than factory stock HP.

If you"ve got access to a 3x16 plow, give it a try on your own soil and see how it works. Does your 3 point hitch conversion allow the tractor and plow to take full advantage of the traction boost system? Many conversions don"t really let the traction boost system work as it should. If that is the case, then you would be better off with a snap coupler plow, because they are made for the traction boost system. Of course the traction boost won"t work if it isn"t adjusted properly that"s pretty much a no brainer. Just hook onto the plow and see what happens, and then go from there.

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