D-17 engine questions

Hello;

I have a 1963 D- 17 gas that has some kind of knock or rap that occurs only when first starting up, the first 5-8 seconds or so. Also, the oil pressure gauge stays at zero for the same amount of time, then goes all the way to the right, and runs quiet. This is a gas engine , and I try to take it easy on her while running and use straight 40 weight.

Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks
 
What kind of outside temperatures do you have where you live? I'm a big believer in 40W oil but in cold temps it is slow getting the pressure up in the oil gallery. So without oil pressure it becomes evident that there is a bit too much clearance in at least one of the bearings. Until the bearing issue is addressed you will likely always have this knock until the pressure is up. With thinner oil like 10W 30 you may shorten up the 5-8 seconds but when working the tractor hard in hot temperatures the knock is more likely to be heard with thin oil. It's far more risky to have a bearing knock in a hot engine than only a few seconds on cold start up. To find the problem you would need to pull the pan and plasti-gauge each bearing to find the clearances and decide a course of action.
 
Hello Nordic;

Thanks for the input and I had tried to remove the oil pan, but found it near impossible with limited shop equipment. It sure doesn't come off easy like on my Model B allis.
 
This time of year you need something like a 20W-50 or a 10W-40 type of oil so it moves as soon as the engine is spinning over with the starter. Your engine is dry starting and it takes a bit for the oil to start moving so in turn many parts that need oil are not getting it as soon as they need it
 
Hello;

Can you give me instructions on how best to remove the front end of this tractor to enable a man to remove the oil pan? I got as far as all the power steering gear and then had to quit for lack of equipment. A man can get hurt bad if something breaks loose.

Thanks
 
I have never pulled the front end off a D-17 so not sure how to do it with out looking at the D-17 I have. I know for me it would not be a hard thing but I do also have a shop set up for splitting tractors and have one in the shop right now that is laying all over the shop
 

According to the manual it is not necessary to remove the power steering to remove your oil pan. Here is a copy of the page from the manual.Although the instructions are correct, I believe the diagram in the manual is wrong....the 1/4" socket head screw goes down into the threaded strap from the top, not up through the bottom.
43734.jpg

I dislike the "upside down" oil filter base on the D-17....if the tractor sits for any time after it has warmed up, the oil all drains out and it takes a while to build pressure.
Do you have good oil pressure after the engine warms up good?
I think using 40 weight in cold weather is not a good idea.
I use 10W40 year round and my oil pressure runs about 30 PSI at operating speed even in the hottest weather.
 
Hello Old;

When you have the time I would appreciate some tips on how best to pull the front end, to enable me to pull the oil pan.

All the best
 
I will try to get a look at it today when I go out side. That said I would think one could pull the oil pan with out pulling the front off but since I never have tried I maybe wrong on that but will know after I look
 
(quoted from post at 06:27:51 01/01/17) Hello Old;

When you have the time I would appreciate some tips on how best to pull the front end, to enable me to pull the oil pan.

All the best

I guess you don't believe me....or the manual? LOL
 
Hello;

The problem is (as it has power steering), as you are sitting on the tractor you have on the right side a canister part of the steering mechanism blocking pan removal, and on the left side is the steering knuckle blocking removal . Cutting the pan with a torch or saw is the only way that pan will drop, as it is right now from the factory.

Books are fine, but they often do not tell the whole story.

Thanks
 
What series is yours?? The one I have it a series one. Can you by chance remove the steering knuckle??
 
Hello Old;

It is a series III D -17. If you mean the left and side knuckle, sure that can pull out. But that doesn't not give near enough clearance on that left side for pan removal. And the cylinder on the other (right) side blocks it real good too.
 
Mine being a series 1 maybe be a lot different but I will try to look any how
 
The right book for the right machin will tell you the right way to do the job. Series 1 vs series 3 is a completely different power steering setup. Ir may require rolling the front bolster out. Either way, try a lighter oil in the winter. Even 10-30 in my series 2 takes a couple seconds to build pressure.
AaronSEIA
 
Why are you looking at pulling the oil pan/pump? 40W in winter and you are having a bit of time building up oil pressure - this is nothing new. Fill it with 5W40 Rotella in the winter.

If you were losing pressure when the oil warmed up then you might have an oil pump issue.
 
A GOOD oil filter will help with that issue. I believe this D17 uses the Motorcraft FL1A - same filter as my Ford 351W engine. Use a good filter and drain back isn't an issue. Using the cheaper Fram PH8A and half of them have issues with the drain back valve.
 
Hello Brian;

I have a picture similar to what you posted, so yes that tells about half of the story. That picture does not include the power steering ram cylinder that dead blocks removal, and I haven't the series iii manual yet, but will keep looking. Not worth getting killed over, better to learn first!
 
(quoted from post at 02:26:32 01/02/17) Hello Brian;

I have a picture similar to what you posted, so yes that tells about half of the story. That picture does not include the power steering ram cylinder that dead blocks removal, and I haven't the series iii manual yet, but will keep looking. Not worth getting killed over, better to learn first!

I can't speak from experience.....the reason I did the research was because when my governor weights exploded I thought I was going to have to remove the pan. As it turns out, I did not have to do that as I was able to "fish" the parts up thru the governor opening.
You may very well be right about the lack of clearance but it seems odd that Allis would make up that threaded plate specifically so that the pan could be unbolted with out removing the P.S. ram.
I agree with you; the manual seems to leave an awfully lot unsaid.
 
Morning Bushhog papa;

Like you said, maybe pulling the mill out is the best way, though I have never done that before on this tractor.
Would you know the steps involved in pulling the engine out? Would save some time I imagine.

Thanks
 
On a D-17 one has to have a way to hold both the front and rear/transmission up and also hang the engine. For me that is easy but I also have a 17 foot I-Beam in the over head of my shop with 3 chain hoists on trolleys plus a 4th one that hangs where ever I want to hang it. I have a JD 1020 in my shop that up till yesterday was hanging on all 4 hoists. Engine has new pistons and sleeves etc and I had the transmission open also and the 3 point lifted up and off with the engine out all at the same time
 
Hello Old;

To make what you are saying clear to me, is that with the front end of the D-17 still fully on the tractor? After looking at my tractor, it appears that the engine(after removal of tin and radiator, etc.) should pull out. I do have a cherry picker and engine stand and was figuring maybe going that way about it. That way I can work on the engine proper, out in the open on a regular engine stand.

Appreciate all the good help
 
With the engine being part of the frame of the tractor you have to support the transmission/rear end plus also support the front end plus have a way to handle the engine I.E. you have 3 big heavy parts you have to be able to control and in such a way that when it is time to bolt every thing back up you can line things up. Lining things up is the hardest part of the job
 
40 wt oil is WAY TO THICK.......... Try a 10w40 or 15w40 if you want 40wt when hot.. a good 10w 30 should be adequate... Straight weight oil is not a good idea.
 

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