- Thread starter Farmallb
- Start date
Well, then, I have a rare bird, as mine is labeled
FIREING
ORDER
1 2 4 3 ----------> Radiator
Ive seen it enough. Ive rotated the plug wires around 16 times in the last 2 days, and turned the mag 180 4 times. Ive got it belted to my H Farmall. Ive made sure the belt is turned 1/2 so that both pulleys are turning clockwise. I even put the crank in and engaged it, and turned it to make sure the belt traveled the same way with it as it did with the H.
Ive done this with F-20s, F-30s, and a Case, and NEVER had I had them not catch and take off when in the right placement.
Ive got a spark plug tester which shows the mag is throwing fire. I had the mag looked at by a pro. I changed out the plugs. I changed out the 3/8ths gas line for a 1/4 thinking it was getting too much gas.
FIREING
ORDER
1 2 4 3 ----------> Radiator
Ive seen it enough. Ive rotated the plug wires around 16 times in the last 2 days, and turned the mag 180 4 times. Ive got it belted to my H Farmall. Ive made sure the belt is turned 1/2 so that both pulleys are turning clockwise. I even put the crank in and engaged it, and turned it to make sure the belt traveled the same way with it as it did with the H.
Ive done this with F-20s, F-30s, and a Case, and NEVER had I had them not catch and take off when in the right placement.
Ive got a spark plug tester which shows the mag is throwing fire. I had the mag looked at by a pro. I changed out the plugs. I changed out the 3/8ths gas line for a 1/4 thinking it was getting too much gas.
John Gottlied
New User
no! get #1 cylinder tdc on compression
no 2 remove cap that spark plug wires plug into , wherever rotor button is pointing is where the no 1 plug wire goes next wire is no 2 wire fits then #4 last #4
looking at cap wires go in a clockwise direction.
no 2 remove cap that spark plug wires plug into , wherever rotor button is pointing is where the no 1 plug wire goes next wire is no 2 wire fits then #4 last #4
looking at cap wires go in a clockwise direction.
John Gottlied
New User
no1 get #1 cylinder tdc on compression
no 2 remove cap that spark plug wires plug into , wherever rotor button is pointing is where the no 1 plug wire goes next wire is no 2 wire fits then #4 last #3
looking at cap wires go in a clockwise direction.
no 2 remove cap that spark plug wires plug into , wherever rotor button is pointing is where the no 1 plug wire goes next wire is no 2 wire fits then #4 last #3
looking at cap wires go in a clockwise direction.
Butch(OH)
Well-known Member
If it hasn"t been fooled with the #1 wire goes in the upper hole closest to the engine. The rotor turns clockwise as viewed from the rear so follow #1 with the wires in order clockwise. Just a touch of checking beats the heck out of a bunch of guessing. Remove all the plugs, stick your finger in the #1 hole and turn the crank until you can feel compression. Then keep turning the crank slowly until the impulse just clicks and stop. Then remove the OUTER cap, the rotor should be more or less in between two of the terminals. Again the rotor turn to the right when viewed from the rear so the terminal the rotor has just passed will be for #1. If somebody has had the inner cap off and not paid any attention to what is going on inside (common) then the internal gears are out of time and it will not run until retimed correctly.
I read your reply again, and realized I hadnt waited for the impulse to kick. I went out and continued turning, as the crank shaft is stiff, and tho well oiled I had to beat it in. I lost compression before I heard it, but when I did, I stopped and looked. The bug is inbetween the 2 outside holes. I still consider the outside top to be #1. Am I right? And still I don't know if im 180 out.
Billy_The_Kid
Member
If the mag is 180 degrees out, the engine won't run properly IF YOU HAVE NOT MOVED YOUR NUMBER 1 FIRING POSITION BY 180 DEGREES. Here's how to figure out if it is 180 out:
Move your plug wires in a clockwise fashion 180 degrees from where they should be.
I'm going to be slow and precise with this description, so listen carefully. Sometimes your normal Number 1 spot on the distributor cap, when standing behind the magneto and looking toward the radiator, will be the UPPER RIGHT or the UPPER LEFT plug wire on the distributor cap.
IF, and I repeat IF, your normal number 1 is the UPPER LEFT position, and the mag is "off" by 180 degrees, then your number 1 position will become the BOTTOM RIGHT position on the distributor cap.
IF, and I AGAIN repeat IF, your normal number 1 is the UPPER RIGHT hole in the distributor cap, and the mag is 180 degrees "off," then your number 1 position will be the BOTTOM LEFT hole in the distributor cap.
How do I know this? Because my WD engine is "off" by 180 degrees. My number 1 position on the distributor cap, in my case, is the BOTTOM RIGHT. If I take the mag off and carefully rotate the spline 180 degrees, my Number 1 position will become the TOP LEFT position on the distributor cap. Can you run your tractor the way I run mine. Yes you can. Does it make any difference in long run? Heck, I don't know. That is a question for some of the Rocket Surgeons on this here board to answer.
Hey, where's Stu ON? He helped me with my wiring....
steve(ill)
Well-known Member
Take all the spark plugs out and it is easier to rotate. have someone put their thumb over the #1 hole while you turn the motor slowly. Helper will feel when it starts to come up on compression on thumb. About 90 degrees more rotation and you will hear a "snap" of the mag. If you have the plugs in the end of the plug wires and grounded to the motor or frame, ONE of them will spark.... Make that #1 no matter WHERE it is on the cap... It may not be the way the factory set it up, but will work fine. From there, go clockwise on the mag and wires will be #2, #4, #3. Last step is when you hear the "snap" look at the fly wheel hole and look for the TDC mark. If it is off, loosen the clamp and rotate the mag until you get the snap at the TDC mark. Forget about the 180 degree off and which cap hole is #1... don't matter... which ever one fires at #1 TDC is #1.
OK. I loaded the sp holes with tranny fluid. Let it set for 4hrs. Put the old/new plugs back in, and, with it belted to the H ran it a minute.
I had, before that, put my finger in the front sp hole. hand cranked it till I felt comp. kept bumping it till comp dissipated, the heard the impulse click. Took off the cap and the bug was between the 2 outside holes. In other caps I have seen, #1 was marked at the upper outside hole onto the cap.
BUT how do I know of I havnt got it 180 out yet?
I had, before that, put my finger in the front sp hole. hand cranked it till I felt comp. kept bumping it till comp dissipated, the heard the impulse click. Took off the cap and the bug was between the 2 outside holes. In other caps I have seen, #1 was marked at the upper outside hole onto the cap.
BUT how do I know of I havnt got it 180 out yet?
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
I have had two or three FM J4B3 mags with the #1 cylinder top right. Most have it on top left.
Thank you guys all. Thanks old for the offer, but What im needing now, is to know IF Ive got it 180 out before I replace the new plugs I bought yesterday with the new plugs I bought today.
Ive got a H4
my E mail is [email protected]
Ive got a H4
my E mail is [email protected]
Thank you guys all. Thanks old for the offer, but What im needing now, is to know IF Ive got it 180 out before I replace the new plugs I bought yesterday with the new plugs I bought today.
Ive got a H4
my E mail is [email protected]
Ive got a H4
my E mail is [email protected]
Billy_The_Kid
Member
"BUT how do I know of I havnt got it 180 out yet?"
Previously asked and previously answered. There is no other way to tell other than what was already described.
Previously asked and previously answered. There is no other way to tell other than what was already described.
John Gottlied
New User
just a thought, mags don't like carbon wires, they like the metal wire core
I did all the stuff that the guys suggested and them some on a Case S with a mag. But as I recall, you should hear the mag click at the top of the compression stroke , when you hear the mag click remove the cap and see where the rotor is pointed - should be at # 1 plug . Also there was a guy on the case site that sent me a diagram on how to time the mag and it was very helpful but unfortunately I don't have it . I even went to the trouble of removing the valve cover to make sure all the vales were working and in the proper position on #1 ( both closed. Anyway , the old case starts and runs perfect -- I guess I got lucky -- I'm like you, meaning I like tinkering until It runs .
Good luck and have fun !!
When the number one piston is at the top of its stroke and you get spark at number one spark wire. Take the valve cover off and if only one valve is closed on number one cylinder you are 180º off. If both valves are closed you are in time. I always clamp a magneto in a vise to get it set up to spark when it snaps. Fussing with them on the tractor is a big pain for me.
wilson ind
Well-known Member
if you have bugs in your mag clean it good insects can cause a short !!
BushogPapa
Well-known Member
Where the Mag/Dist is installed actually makes NO difference...
All you need to do is IDENTIFY which SP (Dist) nipple the Rotor is near(once you have #1 at TDC Compression..align the Timing mark for TDC).
with the Mag rotated for an extreme Retarded spark position, slowly turn the Mag (or Dist) advancing the Mag by turning it..until the Impulse trips and tighten the Mag down..
Same for a Distributor..
Should be good to Go..
Ron.
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
You have an Ih model H4 magneto on an Allis chalmers?
It will work. The only marking on the cap would be the number 1 inside a circle. Number 1 will be the top right tower. There is no mark inside the cap to show where the rotor should point like there is on a Fairbanks Morse.
The rotor needs to point towards the #1 tower. Use a magic marker and mark the location of the #1 tower on the edge of the magneto. With the cap removed the rotor would need to point at your magic marker mark. The magneto should be ready to put on.
It will work. The only marking on the cap would be the number 1 inside a circle. Number 1 will be the top right tower. There is no mark inside the cap to show where the rotor should point like there is on a Fairbanks Morse.
The rotor needs to point towards the #1 tower. Use a magic marker and mark the location of the #1 tower on the edge of the magneto. With the cap removed the rotor would need to point at your magic marker mark. The magneto should be ready to put on.
steve(ill)
Well-known Member
EXACTLY... any wire can be #1. You just need to figure out which one FIRES when #1 cylinder is at TDC.
Billy_The_Kid
Member
Are you on Eastern or Central time?
steve(ill)
Well-known Member
when your are on compression on #1, and the impulse snaps. ONE OF THE WIRES should have spark. That is the #1 plug, don't matter WHERE it is... If you don't get spark when it snaps, then the make is not setup right or has a problem.
steve(ill)
Well-known Member
when the impulse snaps, it jumps about 45 degrees so the #1 wire would be just before the final position of the rotor after the snap.
teddy52food
Well-known Member
I have run into this before. Did you ever have it running on this Mag? You may need a different impulse cup with the lugs in a different position.
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy