WD gears grinding when shifting

PTGallis

New User
Hi Guys

When attempting to shift gears on my WD it just grinds and won't shift gears. This happens using the foot or hand clutch. Low or high throttle. If I start it in gear with the foot clutch depressed it will operate fine so long as i don't take it out of that gear. If I do it will just grind when attempting to shift. Needless to say turning the tractor off, shifting into the gear I need then turning it on again is getting old.

I'm new to Allis Chalmers and the WD so if anyone can offer some troubleshooting advice from past experiences that would be a ton of help. I'm mechanical but not a mechanic and trying to learn as I go. So dumbing it down a bit if you can would be appreciated.

Possible helpful info:
-I have owned this tractor since the winter and it gradually started doing this. It first started as a grind but would still shift. Now it only grinds and will not go into gear when running.
-It has always been a bit difficult to get it to shift into 3rd and fourth. Even with the tractor off.
-When it grinds and I let off pressure on the shifter I can still hear something spin of a bit.
-the tractor is a 1952....tractor number WD108811

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

Paul
 
Could be a number of problems. Simple adjustment of the linkage.
#2 throw out bearing going bad.
#3 clutch disk falling apart and that will cause build up and not let it loosen
#4 Oil in the transmission full of water and that caused all sorts of odd problems
Could also be a few other things but it is late and I am tired so not thinking well LOL
 
I know on my WD, I think the clutch is pretty worn out on it, and when you clutch to shift, the clutch pedal has some over-travel to it and it takes maybe... 5 or 6 seconds to actually be able to shift after pressing in the pedal so you don't knock the gears. So I'm interested to see what you find out here.

So if you press the clutch in, will it actually stop the tractor? But just not allow it to shift?
 
Yes when I press in the clutch it will stop the tractor (remove
power to the transmission) I have not been waiting that long to
shift though. (As you say 6 seconds or so) I"m pressing the
clutch and attempting to shift right away from a stand still.

Ill try pausing longer to see what that does and will update
later.

Thanks,
Paul
 
19344.jpg


This should be the transmission for your WD. Straight cut gears, no constant mesh, no synchros. If the transmission shifted correctly at first, but neither clutch works well now, it seems that something in the transmission or shifter has gone amiss.

These transmissions require that the tractor be at a full stop when shifting. The foot clutch is the most certain, but with experience, a properly adjusted wet clutch can be just as effective if you learn to do it smoothly.

If you constantly get grinding, it may be that a fork of the shifter is bent or there is too much wear on one of those collars on one of the gear clusters in the transmission. I do not have experience with this because I have always shifted carefully. But, with your symptoms, I would be lifting the shifter tower off to inspect both the shifter forks and the gear collars.

Since the tractor stops when you push the foot clutch in, you do not likely have a clutch problem.
 
Yep take a few minutes for the gears in the transmission to slow down and stop. Plus if your using a thin oil in the transmission that also is a factor as to how long it takes
 
Yes, allow the transmission to coast to a stop before gently trying to slip it into gear..

ALSO...

ALWAYS engage the transmission gear (while stopped), BEFORE you attempt to engage the PTO..

That makes certain that the PTO will not grind any gears when it engages..

Always use the Foot clutch when changing gears on a WD..

Ron..
 
For the new owner of a WD, there are operating considerations that shed light on the conventional wisdom of clutching and shifting and allow optimization of the technical advances of this model over the WC.

As with the WC, if using the tractor to pull a plow or haul a hay wagon, use of the foot clutch will never let you down. However, you still must bring the tractor to a dead stop to change gears. The hand clutch on the WD originally allowed the use of the rotobaler, so that forward motion could be interrupted while maintaining PTO drive.

With the passage of time, WD owners decided to use the WD with brush hogs and back blades, which were not considered at the time of conception. In the case of the brush hog, if hogging around trees, or ditches or fencelines, it is desireable to shift from a forward gear to reverse without disengaging the PTO. In the case of pushing snow with a rear mounted blade, it is desireable to maintain hydraulic pump operation while shifting from forward to reverse, so that the blade can be lifted while the transmission is shifted.

In either case, this is how you do it. Push the hand clutch all the way forward while leaving the transmission in gear. Bring the tractor to a dead stop, using the brakes as necessary. This brings the transmission to a complete stop. Nothing is spinning aft of the wet clutch. Shift quickly and smoothly from one gear to another. Pull the hand clutch back. Once the driveline is broken, the transmission does not know if it is broken at the front or back of the engine clutch shaft.

If the shift is made after sitting with the transmission in neutral, the potential concern exists that hydraulic coupling within the wet clutch will cause the input shaft to the transmission to start revolving again. This tendency diminishes at the oil warms up and thins a little with use. It is also important to use oil no thicker than the specified 80EP or 80W90 and change it before it turns to mud. The cumulative clearance between the clutch plates in the clutch pack should be kept near the specified 0.065" when servicing the clutch. Setting it up tighter will result in a firmer short throw clutch handle and a clutch less likely to slip, but will lead to more viscous coupling. This is probably a more critical adjustment in the WD45's with the three plate clutch.

A hand clutch set for maximum clamping action and maximum pulling power will not be set up for easy shifting with the hand clutch.

A harmful tendency that can occur when using the hand clutch to shift is failing to throw the hand clutch all the way forward and to use the brake as necessary to stop the motion of the tractor. This requires reaching forward with the right arm and right foot at the same time. For those of us older than our tractor, this becomes a bit of a stretch and makes hogging and blading a tiring job.

One reason that shifting with the foot clutch is more forgiving is that the engine clutch shaft remains connected to the transmission input shaft and the load from continuously driving the plungers of the hydraulic pump brings all movement to a stop more quickly. Plus, there is just less tendency to try a quick shift while pushing on the heavy clutch with the left foot and reaching for the shifter with the left hand.

Some will observe that the WD Operators Manual only instructs on how to shift gears using the foot clutch. This is true. As with many sections of the WD manual, it is just a copy over of the comparable section of the WC manual. Technical changes were coming more quickly than manual revisions and there are many instances of the manuals lagging the technology. Today, we use these old tractors on equipment that was not even envisioned in 1948.
 
As with any tractor, a dragging pilot bearing or a pressure plate that is not completely releasing from the clutch disc can cause your problem. You also need to give the transmission gears time to stop spinning after the clutch is disengaged. I recently drove a friends Farmall 230 and it took a full 10 seconds for the transmission to stop after the clutch was disengaged.
 
If you start the tractor with the foot clutch depressed and in gear, or if you are driving around and depress the foot clutch, you don't need to wait any time to shift into another gear as long as the tractor is STOPPED before pulling to neutral. If the gears start turning as soon as you hit neutral and grind trying to get it in a different gear, you either have a dragging clutch, bad throw-out bearing or a dragging pilot bearing
 
That's the problem I have. From neutral, completely stopped it
won't shift Into gear using the foot clutch or not. It only grinds.

Time to get a shop manual...do you have to split the tractor to
get at any of the three possible suspects you mention?


Thanks
 
Thanks for the help so far guys:
Ill try:
-when at stand still waiting a good 10 seconds or so from depressing foot clutch to shifting
-ill check the fluid viscosity and consistency (quality) if its thick, gummy or milky for the hand clutch.

Ill post an update. Then if not resolved maybe help to troubleshoot dragging clutch, bad throw-out bearing or a dragging pilot bearing as CTucker has pointed out would be a ton of help. Ill order a shop manual this weekend. I only have the owners type manual correctly.

I love this forum. You guys are very helpful.
Thanks!
Paul
 
Hey guys,

I finally got around to pulling the shifting tower off. Here is what it looks like underneath. The "plate" I'm pointing to had a nut that tightens. When I looked at it it was very loose and the plate freely wiggles around. I assume this is a major part of my problem?

I get that I'm not using the correct lingo but I'm trying my best. Thanks for your help.

Paul
 

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